EPISODE 502: 5 Things to Know Before Signing a Lease with Carolyn Boldt
Hey, chiropractors. We're ready for another Modern Chiropractic Mastery Show with Dr. Kevin Christie, where we discuss the latest in marketing strategies, contact marketing, direct response marketing, and business development with some of the leading experts in the industry.
Dr. Kevin Christie: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of Modern Chiropractic Mastery. Today, we are gonna be talking to Carolyn Bolt, and she's gonna dive into the topic of Before You Sign: Five Keys to Choosing the Right Space. And she's been on the show before. She's with Crossfields. They do a great job from everything from design to architecture to flow, and we're gonna dive into, again, the five keys to choosing the right space, whether you're renting it or buying it, or even if you have to kinda retrofit the space you have, you're gonna learn a lot from this and from Carolyn.
Uh, before we do dive into that, I wanna mention we do have Thrive coming up in Atlanta. This is a collaboration between FTCA, MPI, and MCM, so all three of us. We've got Mark King speaking, Bobby Mabee speaking, myself, Lindsay Muma, Brett Winchester, Brandon Steele, Holly Tucker, and then the none other Kurt Kibbenberger is our MC for [00:01:00] the weekend.
And we're gonna bring all things practice growth to you. This won't be clinical. This is gonna be practice growth. But with the names that I've seen signed up and the people attending and the speakers, these are all really good clinicians that are looking to get even better on the business side, and we're gonna do that for you and, and really dive into a lot of topics that are gonna help you grow your practice.
And this is for chiropractic owners. This is for students, uh, practice managers. We're gonna... It's gonna be higher level information. You're gonna have some heads down work. But even if you're a student, you need to be hearing it now and learning it now. Obviously, if you're an owner, it's really important.
And then if you're a practice manager, you can help bring this back and, and lead this with your practice owner to get it in, implemented into the team and into the practice. And so it's January thirtieth and thirty-first in Atlanta, Georgia, making it really easy for you to get there. And, uh, it's, it's a tram ride from the airport to the, the conference center and the [00:02:00] hotels.
So we'd love to see you there. Uh, you can go to bit.ly, bit.ly/thrive2027. You do have to put that HTTPS in front of it. Or just go to our website, modernchiropracticmarketing.com, or our Facebook group, or FTCA's, or MPI's website. We hope you will be there. You won't regret it. You'll get a lot out of it. So without further ado, here is my interview with Carolyn Bolt
All right. Excited to have Carolyn back on the show, uh, today. This is gonna be our fourth time. There's, uh, it's just a, a, a wider range of topics when we are discussing everything f- about your, your office space. So welcome back to the show. Thank you for having me, Kevin. It's great. Yeah, definitely. What's new in your world?
Carolyn Boldt: Uh, just busy. In a good way. Good. In a good way. Good. Yes. I love to hear it. Love to hear it. And I know we had been chatting, uh, recently, and I was like, you know what? We, I wanna get you back on because a topic that I hear a lot is just like, okay, what are some of the things I need to look [00:03:00] at and, and think about when I'm going to sign a lease, right?
Dr. Kevin Christie: Whether it's the first time you're doing it and opening up your practice, or you're considering relocating. And we're gonna talk about later on in this episode, the, the thoughts around relocating versus renovating and kinda that love it or leave it, uh, topic there. But before we do, like, we kind of have a five-point checklist here for evaluating space before signing a lease.
So, uh, right out of the gates, what are some of the things people need to think about during that big decision-making process?
Carolyn Boldt: Well, a lot of people immediately start thinking about the inside of the space, but you need to think about the outside first, 'cause you can't change the outside.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: Meaning, where is it located?
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Carolyn Boldt: So that's the biggest issue. Um, and I know a lot of people understand that- Yeah ... but you don't want to be fighting against yourself- Mm-hmm ... and where it's located. So one, does the location match your ideal patient?
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: So doing demographic studies, looking at [00:04:00] what's...
And does, is the area growing? Mm-hmm. So that's another thing. You may have to dig deep into the chamber of commerce and find out what's going on and do some study because plenty of... I, I met with a doctor yesterday who was in a town that was dying.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: The town was dying. Mm-hmm. And he had put all this money into his practice, and he...
Anyway, you understand what I'm saying. Yeah. So you want to know that you're in a place that's growing and that it's gonna be your ideal practice. So that's two. Mm-hmm. Um, then when you look at the s- the location, once you start to narrow that down, look at your competition. Mm-hmm. Specifically in chiropractic, right?
Yeah. If you're exactly practicing exactly like the guy, you know, a mile away-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm ...
Carolyn Boldt: you might want to get farther away, just so you're not in such direct competition and you could actually support each other- Mm-hmm ... more than be a direct competition. If you're practicing very differently, how can you complement each other?
So how are, do you differentiate yourself from your [00:05:00] competition directly? So that would be number three. Then, you know, beyond that, looking at the building itself. Mm-hmm. So the building itself, does it attract? Is it attractive for your patients? Yeah. And does it have the parking you need? Does it have the facility?
You, you can't change those things. Mm-hmm. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. You can change the inside all you want, but you can't change that first impression from the outside.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Carolyn Boldt: And then lastly, the hardest thing, I think, is don't let your emotions make your decision.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Carolyn Boldt: You know? I mean, emotions matter, but you need to weigh all these pieces out.
Um, you have doctors come and- You know, they get real excited about a location, 'cause ul- ultimately you have to look at it's gonna be a return on investment. Mm-hmm. Do you know? So you have to look- Yeah ... at all of those things in relationship to that return on investment. So I can go deeper into any one of those you want.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. I would tackle, uh, right from the kind of the beginning is, yeah, location. I've definitely worked with clients [00:06:00] that I've coached where they've considered moving and, and, and I'm not necessarily a, a, an expert on demographics and things like that, but I, I will make sure I ask them. Like, "Okay, if you move from here and you move so four miles down..."
Because what I, what I've seen before, like, "Oh, if I move over there, um, you know, I'm either... I'm gonna be able to buy the building, or I'm gonna be able to rent for cheaper." And so I'm always like, "All right. Well, we... I get that. Like, buying a building's awesome, you know, all things considered. Uh, cheaper rent is awesome, but we don't wanna sacrifice our business."
'Cause there's, there's the business and then there's the real estate, right? Yes. And we- Yeah ... we can make a real estate decision, whether it's buying or renting i- in a, in a vacuum, but if we don't take our business into that consideration, it, it could be a big problem. So yeah, you might be able to save $1,000 a month on rent- But now your practice sucks and, and you're [00:07:00] losing 5,000 a month or 10,000 a month in revenue because of that move.
Carolyn Boldt: Yes.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Uh, or, or the opposite. I've s- you know, people are afraid of like, "Oh, I g- I would love to rent that 2,000 square feet over there," but the rent would increase by 2,000 a month or more. And I was like, "Well, that's a perfect place to be in compared to where you were. What's the potential revenue increase there," right?
So there's a lot to go into that, for sure.
Carolyn Boldt: And, and to your point, think about it, uh, you just said it. Uh, let's just say you could have 2,000 ... That's one care plan a month.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: Right?
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Carolyn Boldt: So if you can get how many more people are your ideal patients over in that location? Yeah. And what is your, what do they call it, total a, um, available market, TAM?
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: That's what you really have to look at more than anything because you are a destination.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Carolyn Boldt: You're not virtual. You're a destination, and you've gotta make it easy and accessible and attractive for your patients to come. And, and [00:08:00] I know, you know, we have the idea of are they gonna come when they hurt?
But you know you want- Yeah ... them to be there for the long term. Yeah. So it needs to make it easy, so yeah.
Dr. Kevin Christie: It does, and even it, it gets so nuanced, right? Like, you mention ideal patient, and a lot of people will, will think, "Okay, yeah, like I work with runners and golfers and," or whatever, "and so I'm looking for those patients."
And, and yes, for sure. But I've also seen where people run into problems is they are a cash-based practice and they're, let's call it, uh, on the higher end of it. You need to be in an area that can support that. You can't run... It's hard to run that model in a lower, uh, socioeconomic area, right? And so you gotta take that into consideration.
Uh, or, you know, if you're in network with all the insurances, then yeah, you probably have a little bit more wiggle room.
Carolyn Boldt: Yes. Yes, we have a doctor we're working with right now. He has- Three pain-based PI-type practices
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm
Carolyn Boldt: And they're all in blue collar [00:09:00] surroundings, right?
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: Mm-hmm. They're running beautifully.
He's letting them run, but now he wants to move to Orlando-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm ...
Carolyn Boldt: in a high-rent district and to a whole different cash base. And he knows that it's gonna be a whole different practice, but he knows that that demographics can support that, where he could never do that in the location- Mm-hmm ... that he's in.
So very much to that point.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, definitely. It's, like, I'm in Boca Raton, Florida. It's very affluent. You wouldn't... I mean, not that there isn't, but you wouldn't want to run a high, like, a heavy PI clinic in our area. It just doesn't support it as much, uh, frankly, 'cause the people that get in accidents, they're not looking for, uh, the whole process with personal injury for $10,000 or $20,000 unless it's like they're really hurt.
So it doesn't, doesn't feed the PI as much, but it feeds cash-based services.
Carolyn Boldt: Very much so. Very much so. So So, yes, so the demographics, and then once again, the area's growing because- Mm-hmm ... it, you, that's a... You don't have a crystal ball, but there's a lot of indicators you can [00:10:00] dig into, and that just takes research.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: And once you find an area, um, you know, looking at, see what the economic growth things are happening, chambers of commerce are great to talk to.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. No, it makes sense. And you get a good vibe.
Carolyn Boldt: Yeah.
Dr. Kevin Christie: And this is what's been interesting to, to, you know, take it back to my, uh, situation here. Uh, since COVID, we've grown quite a bit in population, and we've grown quite a bit in affluent population.
Uh, there's no doubt about it. Um, but interestingly enough, we've also grown in, um, more providers. Like, we had a... I remember thinking, I, I think I knew of four or five chiropractors that moved down here and opened up in the Boca area, uh, from the New York-New Jersey area during COVID. Yes. Um, so we, we definitely had more competition coming in.
Obviously we've, we've got, like, 16, 17 years of, uh, of being in here- Mm-hmm ... and so that's helped out for sure. But I've seen, I've seen it change. Uh, there's no doubt about it. It's, it's fascinating to see how areas change.
Carolyn Boldt: Yes. And to that point, [00:11:00] you're not the only one looking at these demographics and this growth- Yeah
right? You have-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm ...
Carolyn Boldt: your competition. So then it's how do you, how do you differentiate yourself from your competition? Yeah. How are you showing up differently? Mm-hmm. And how are you, um- You know, what is your ... I know people hate to ... I hear this all the time. They hate to get really clear about their avatar.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: But you know in marketing, the clearer you can get in your avatar-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm ...
Carolyn Boldt: the more you're going to zone in on that, and then all the things around it do come with it.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: But people are so afraid to do that, so, um-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, for sure ... part of this. And I guess the ... Yeah. Mm-hmm. I guess the other topic actually, um, something I thought about, I've thought about over the years is, you know, there's different types of office spaces as well, right?
Right, right. You could have a standalone building. You could have, you know, office retail. You can be a medical building. You can be subletting. There's a lot of different things there, and I think there's a lot of pros [00:12:00] and cons to it, uh, to different things, and that's always something that people need to consider as well.
Carolyn Boldt: Very much so, and I think it really does relate to what kind of practice you have-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm ...
Carolyn Boldt: is my opinion. If you're, um, in my opinion, uh, if you're a quick in and out type practice- Yeah ... high volume, quick in and out, you need to be very accessible. Yeah. You need ... That's, that's where, to me, the retails or even the strip center type situa- Yeah
It doesn't have to be retail, but a strip center where it's quick in and out. If you're more of you've got physical therapy, people are gonna be there a little bit longer, it's more of a destination- Mm-hmm ... then it, it, a medical office building, like what you're in, where you- Yeah ... it takes, you have to get into the space, but people are gonna- Yeah
be there longer. Mm-hmm. And that, um, appeals more. And also that- Actually also kind of relates to the dollar amount that you're- Yeah ... practicing. You know? So the- Mm-hmm ... more, the more someone [00:13:00] has to work to get in there, the more they're gonna stay, the higher the dollar, versus the quick in and out, you know?
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. Oh, 100, 100%. And it's been fascinating. I actually knew someone that kind of knew the inner workings of The Joint, and- Yes ... The Joint's fascinating. I use them as an example of, uh, where, you know, you can, you, you know, there's, there's certain barriers to entry in a particular chiropractic practice, right?
So if you're out of network, that's a barrier versus being in network. If you're expensive, that's a barrier. If you're limited in your scheduling, that's a barrier. Like, there's barriers. And a- and then The Joint has done... Essentially what they've done is they've knocked down every barrier, right? Like, um, no insurance, don't deal with that.
You don't even need an appointment, you just walk in. Uh, easily located, super cheap, right? Like, it's no, no time commitment, like, you're in and out. Like, it's just they've knocked down every barrier. But I do know, like, they strategically pick where they will even consider opening up a location, and they know [00:14:00] exactly what their avatar is, they know exactly what their model is, and they wanna be in a retail spot- Yes
that's got a high concentration of people, and usually a modern-looking retail spot that has nice... They even look at particular other businesses that are in that, in that retail spot. And so it's, they've honed in exactly what they're looking for on a location.
Carolyn Boldt: And as a result, become very successful.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, yeah.
Well, love them or hate them, they, they have. Um, and then, yeah, on the other end, like I actually fell into my space, uh, years ago, 2010, 'cause I just was renting. Uh, I got an opportunity to rent a couple of spaces from an orthopedic group that was in this medical building that I'm in now, and I didn't do any, uh, demographic.
I didn't do anything. I just knew that Dr. Kessler and his orthopedic group, uh, did very well, and I kn- and I knew him personally, and I knew he was very smart and a business person. I was like, "I'm sure they did all the legwork." And these, this area of Boca I kinda knew [00:15:00] was good, so I just said, "Sign me up," you know?
And-
Carolyn Boldt: Well, and, and that's another part of the demographic. Yeah. Who are you surrounded by?
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: Who are you surrounded by? Yeah. And, um, yeah, just working with another doctor that we're just looking at the fourth floor versus the third floor, and he really wants- Mm-hmm ... to be on the third floor because of all the other medical practices that are around there.
Yep, yep. That that synergy of working together a- is just so much easier just- Mm-hmm ... a floor lower than the fourth floor- Yeah ... if you follow what I'm saying. Yeah. So yeah, but-
Dr. Kevin Christie: I do, yeah, abs- absolutely. And, and that was the thing was w- I, 'cause I... So I rented for a few years from this orthopedic group, and then I got an opportunity to buy, uh, my, my suite in here, and I knew it wasn't like...
You know, it was the only one a- Well, there was two available. The other one was gonna cost me like crazy amount more to build it out 'cause it was a disaster. Um, so I picked the one I did, and I knew there was things, okay, I'm on the second floor in the back, not ideal. There's no... I don't have street signage.
Uh, there was things like I [00:16:00] knew, uh, that I had to compromise there. But in Boca Raton, in my town, I also got to know it pretty well over the few years prior to buying. There's no standalone buildings. Um, like even if there was, to be able to afford to buy it as a chiropractor, forget it, unless you got generational wealth.
Um, I... Retail spaces were all kinda saturated with chiropractors, and i- and in the retail spaces- are not in this corridor that I'm in, which is actually- Mm-hmm ... a really good corridor. We have two main, you have Florida Atlantic University, you have Lynn. We've got a lot of corporations, like a whole corporate center here.
We got neighborhoods around us, but we don't have a lot of shopping centers. Um, and so I, you, I wasn't gonna get a retail either, so I said, "Okay, this is gonna work." And then ultimately, um, I would say I also believed in my ability to... Okay, I wasn't on Main Street. I didn't have a sign on Main Street, but I believed in my ability to market and, and get [00:17:00] out there, and obviously have an online presence so people would find me and, and like you said, be, be like a destination.
So that helped me. Mm-hmm. Uh, on the business side, h- owning a medical space in Boca, uh, fortunately for me, it, it's appreciated a lot and there's a higher, uh, value to medical space on- Mm-hmm ... uh, uh, when you own it. And then like whenever I decide to sell it at some point or, or rent it out, um, it's got a higher value.
So I'm gonna make up pretty well on that, on the ownership side.
Carolyn Boldt: Yeah, and I think that what you just said, the medical spaces overall- Mm-hmm ... countrywide would have that same type of, of situation. So yes- What you just- ... lots of stories like that. And the other thing I just want to say too is that- Yeah ... the retail and the signage and all that, does people come to the chiropractor 'cause they saw a sign?
Not really.
Dr. Kevin Christie: It, it, it, it- Some ... yeah, some. Maybe. And again, again, if you're the joint or you're trying to be high [00:18:00] volume- Yes ... or you're in- Yes ... certain areas, I, the, I'm, I'm assuming it would definitely work. Yeah. But if you are more, like specialized- Yes ... and you're gonna keep appointment, you know, and certain things like that, not as much, right?
Carolyn Boldt: Not as
Dr. Kevin Christie: much. So that goes back to knowing, knowing what your, your, your business model is and your patient
Carolyn Boldt: base. Exactly. So. Exactly. Exactly. Um- So
Dr. Kevin Christie: yes ... but, uh, other thing on the medical side you gotta be careful of is, like I pay a ton every month in condo dues, right, as, as an owner. And so medical buildings tend to have higher condo dues, which if you're renting, your CAM or, you know, that might be a little higher than other places.
So you definitely have to take that into consideration as well.
Carolyn Boldt: Right. Right. There's lots of... There's no perfect, you just have to weigh everything out, but you have to know what you need first. Mm-hmm. That is number one. And- Yep ... it's not what, not what your classmate or not what your best friend- Mm-hmm
needed, it's what your business needs.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yep. Yeah, 100%. I make
Carolyn Boldt: it [00:19:00] really clear
Dr. Kevin Christie: on that. So let's move on to the inside of the building, right? So obviously you find the play. Okay, let's say all the, the, the, the out- outside part, like we just talked about, checks all the boxes. Now you go inside. Obviously you want the amount of square footage that you need now and into the future.
Um, are there other things that, you know, they need to consider when, when, uh, thinking about the inside of the space?
Carolyn Boldt: Um, well, you already said it. The very first thing is be getting very, very clear on the square footage that you need and having that validated.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: Um, meaning, you know, not just, "Hey, I need 2,000 square feet."
Why do you need 2,000 square feet? Can you actually quantify it out to- Yeah ... say what it is? So that's one of the things that we do with all of our clients to start off with- Mm-hmm ... is, like, really validating the square footage needs based on the room sizes, the flow- Mm ... all of those things. So that's number one.
Number, [00:20:00] um, and then the other thing I just wanna throw out at you that I still know that, you know, you guys don't do this every day.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm.
Carolyn Boldt: But the difference between the square footage in a retail space is different than the gross square footage in... Now, I'm not sure, because you have your own bathrooms.
You're not paying for a core.
Dr. Kevin Christie: No. But it- We, yeah, ours is, we ha- it, yeah, our square footage, like, they would charge us for, like, whatever is higher than what's inside my actual door. Yes.
Carolyn Boldt: So when you have a common area-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah ...
Carolyn Boldt: you prorate that common area across all of the, the spaces that are in it. So whether that's- Yeah
you walk into a building and have a lobby and a high-rise elevator- Mm ... or whatever. Like in yours, it's more of stairways and, and there's elevators and things. So you have to, as the, as you participate, that's part of your space. Mm-hmm. So you participate by using a piece of that. Mm. Well, that's not your usable square footage.
So you have to be really, really clear on what usable square footage you need, and [00:21:00] you have to ask that question- Yeah ... 'cause that's not what's advertised if you're going into- I know. Retail space is about 4%, so it's not as big a deal, but you know. You know it. Yeah. You, did you hit it? Did you have that challenge?
Dr. Kevin Christie: I did. Well, yeah, 'cause I remember when I went to buy and, and the square footage, I, I, I might be off, but it was, like, 3175 or something, right? Uh, 3,175 square feet. But then, um, I really only have 2,998 square feet. I'm like, "Well, what's, wh- why is this off?" Like, well, you know, and, and that's what they, they discussed, essentially.
Carolyn Boldt: Yes. Yes. Yeah. And that's, that, that's standard. I mean, that- Yeah ... how else are you gonna own piece of that lobby- Mm ... that you have, right? Yeah. That's totally standard. So just being aware of it when you go into it, and once again, it's not advertised. Mm-hmm. So we'll have doctors come to us, and they have 3,500 square feet gross.
Yeah. And we get in there, and it's only 3,000. Yeah. Do you know? Because the 500 is covering the elevator. Mm-hmm. [00:22:00] So they just need to ask. So-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. No, that- Yeah ... that, that makes sense, for sure. And then, um, you know, I think one thing that is obviously of consideration, and I, I think what's so important for people to understand here, and, and we can't answer all the questions on this episode, and that's why you have experts like you to do it, but, um- You know, sometimes people will pigeonhole, hole themselves in a particular space because it's, it's kind of was, oh, it used to be a, a dentist office, and so I don't have to do a lot of build-out.
I just need to repaint and do this and that and the other thing. But then the flow of it stinks, so they save money on gutting it and, and r- and redoing it, but then they're costing them money every month and every day and every year. Um, whereas sometimes, yeah, maybe you, you take a space and it is designed pretty well and stuff.
But what are... here are some of your thoughts on that and, like, that decision-making process of, like, do we gut this thing and, and redo the flow, or do we just freshen it up? Like, that's, that's a tricky one, but what are [00:23:00] your thoughts?
Carolyn Boldt: Well- Once again, it depends on where you are in your career.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: Very much so.
So what we tell, when I teach students, um, you wanna get in as low cost as possible, right?
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Carolyn Boldt: So because you want, you've gotta get your revenue up, and you gotta get your overhead as low as possible.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Carolyn Boldt: So you have more time usually than you have money, so your time is not as valuable at that point when you're a startup-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah
Carolyn Boldt: as it is once you grow and your cost per... As you make more money, your cost per hour for you- Mm-hmm ... goes up. So those are kind of the things you weigh out. So as to your point, if you, um, let's just say, you know, you ha- need 1,200 square feet as a startup. I mean, you use startup as an example. Mm-hmm. And you find a space, and you know you need four rooms, and this space has four rooms, but they're not really exactly like you would lay it out, but you can get into [00:24:00] it- Mm-hmm
and you can make it work for a short period of time, it's probably a good thing. Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? Right.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, it
Carolyn Boldt: makes- You can paint the walls ...
Dr. Kevin Christie: total sense. Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: But then if you, or if it's just really minor or something- Mm ... you know, don't build... Uh, maybe you get into a retail space and you don't build very much to start off with- Yeah
or something like that.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: But then once you get into... I, I'm, I'm gonna use this example. Once you grow-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm ...
Carolyn Boldt: you start to see the bottlenecks really easily. Yeah. And, um, you begin to understand that you quantify that time is dollars. Mm-hmm. So then you begin to weigh how much more money could I make if I could see this many more patients because my flow was increased.
Yeah. And then that starts to weigh against the cost of renovation.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Carolyn Boldt: And, um, if you're starting, if you're moving, you're established practice and you're moving, you have to weigh that right up front. You don't-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah ...
Carolyn Boldt: you don't just move into it like it is. One of the other things [00:25:00] we say is that, um, if you can use, especially to students, if you can use 80% of it like it is, it's probably- Mm-hmm
a good deal.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Got it.
Carolyn Boldt: Um, but once you start remodeling more than 80%, I would look for white boxes and gray boxes if you can. Yeah. Do you know? Yeah. Because you're, you're spending money. And the other thing we love about gray boxes is that that's where you get the most tenant improvement allowance. So you can really max out your space 'cause it's like a, a clean slate for you to design- Yeah
exactly... When I say gray box, I assume everybody understands you don't, it's never been occupied.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: So it's raw. Mm-hmm. It's totally raw. It may have a heating, ventilation, air conditioning system, but it doesn't have anything else really in there. And you just have flexibility ...
Dr. Kevin Christie: is where it's got walls and all that stuff, but not built out.
Carolyn Boldt: Yes. Yes. And a white box, um, is t- is terminology usually in the retail strip center areas. Mm-hmm. Because r- a retail strip [00:26:00] center can lease a white box with a bathroom, and they can just put their fixtures in and move in. Do you follow me?
Dr. Kevin Christie: Gotcha.
Carolyn Boldt: Yep. So- Yep ... a white box, and the terminology white box comes from the fact that it usually has sheet rock, which is white.
Yeah. Yeah. And it usually has a drop ceiling, which is white. Mm-hmm. And usually has some kind of flooring. So it's, um, it could easily be inhabited-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah ...
Carolyn Boldt: as it is. And, um-
Dr. Kevin Christie: And I've seen people do that, where they've actually just bought a lot of good furniture and dividers and certain things or have an open concept, and, and- Yeah
and it's done well. So you, you can do it, um, uh, affordable, so.
Carolyn Boldt: Yes, you can.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yes. Um, all right. So that, that segues to the next thing I wanted to talk about is, 'cause, you know, there's a lot of decision-making there, and, and you gotta go through that, and that's where you might be in a scenario where you have to decide, I w- do I wanna relocate or do I wanna just renovate what I currently have?
Kinda like I mentioned earlier, that show Love It or Leave It. I think, [00:27:00] uh, you know, in the residential space a lot of people are just loving it now, and because they're in a low interest rate they don't wanna move houses. Um, so, uh, but on the commercial side, like what are some of the things, like, uh, you know, decisions on do I relocate or do I just renovate what I've got?
Carolyn Boldt: Um, well first, do I relocate has a lot to do with are you already in your ideal location? Okay? Gotcha. So are you in the perfect demographics that's growing- Mm-hmm ... and all of those things, and do you have enough parking? 'Cause a lot of times people, you can't increase parking very easily. You can. Yeah. You can do some stuff.
Mm-hmm. But if you own the space. If you don't own it, it's a d- So once again, do you own it or can you buy it versus leasing? Mm-hmm. So you have to look at first that. So if you're not in the ideal space, um, in other words, I was talking about area, working [00:28:00] with a doctor in the Dallas area that used to be a great area-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm
Carolyn Boldt: but it's just slowly deteriorated and he needs to get out because- Yeah ... he's a high-end cash practice, right? Mm-hmm. So he, he knows it doesn't do me any good to renovate 'cause I gotta get out. Yeah. Gotcha. So that's number one. You have to move for your location. But if you don't wanna lose, leave, change your location, you really need to analyze what would it take to renovate it before- Mm
you start looking. So, um, a- another example right now working with a doctor, uh, that he bought a practice-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm ...
Carolyn Boldt: and he has the opportunity to buy the building and he, but he knows that the building, the ... So, so understand this, it is on a perfect location. It's right across from a s- a, um, college. It's in a growing, growing loca- location, all of those things, but it is a house that was r- Mm
that was turned into a commercial. And [00:29:00] he, it's ... You understand how a house bottlenecks. It wasn't meant- Yeah ... to be a practice, right? Yeah. Especially a house that was built in the '50s. Mm-hmm. So it's like- Putting paint on it is not gonna help him look better, work better. Yeah. So we're looking at analyzing first how many square feet he needs- Mm-hmm
versus what he has in that building. And then if he buys it, buys this house, there's land, can we add the parking that he needs, and can we expand, and c- what can we do? Because there's really not a lot of other options- Yeah ... of buildings to buy in his area. His next best option is to buy land and start from scratch.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm. So- Which is expensive, but it's a good asset if you got the capital to do it, for sure. Exactly. Exactly. Um, I just actually had a coaching call this morning with someone that they own their building, and it's a standalone building, and then they need more square feet. And so he's gonna, um, he's working now with, to figure out how to add, uh, you know, uh, 500 square feet to it, to the actual [00:30:00] structure.
And so that's gonna be a little bit of a process. Not gonna be cheap. But it's gonna serve him in the long term. It's worth that, that investment to do it. Um, I guess also, you know, if y-
Carolyn Boldt: I, I wanna tell you one story- Yeah, go for it.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm ...
Carolyn Boldt: though. One story that just reminded me. We worked with a doctor in, uh, Anderson, and she came to us.
She owned her building, and she owned the land. And she was gonna add on to it. Yeah. And, um, a doctor that she works with referred us, "Hey, why don't you have Crossfield help you with that addition?"
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: And before we helped her with the addition, we said, "Why don't we just rearrange what you've got?"
Dr. Kevin Christie: Y- yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: We rearranged what she had because it was- Mm ... it was rooms weren't the right s- just, and not a lot. Yeah. She said she spent $80,000. That's it. Mm. And rearranged, got rid of some heavy ... You know, just where was she ha- Yeah ... too much space, where does she have too little.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: And kept her, saved her from this $100,000 addition before she even-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Built it out on the inside
Carolyn Boldt: And patience it, yeah,
Dr. Kevin Christie: exactly
Carolyn Boldt: [00:31:00] Um,
Dr. Kevin Christie: yeah,
Carolyn Boldt: and that's what- I think it was even more than that.
Yeah, it was the, it was crazy amount of money to make this addition onto her house
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. And I guess that's a big part of the decision-making process is like, okay, assess your current situation. Like, why- Yeah ... like, why do you feel like you need to move? Now, obviously if you, you're in a bad area now and it used to be good, those are all different things.
But let's say you like the area, you just maybe are running out of square footage and you think you need more square footage and you can't really do anything, uh, externally to your current space or take over another suite next, you know, knock down a wall or anything. Um, I know one of the things you guys do, which is great, is, uh, you know, is, is reimagining the flow of it.
Where I'm sure you see some offices like mine where, you know, I've got 3,000 square feet, but I, I bet you there's, I don't know, 750 square feet that I could use better in, in flow if I needed it. And it's part of what I've actually... When I did buy it, I said I had some outs. Like, like, okay, if, [00:32:00] if we need more space for clinical stuff, then I have some pretty good outs that I know that I could do.
Um, and so I was pretty confident I was never gonna outgrow the square footage here. Um, I like the flow we have, but, um, we could use more space if, if that was something down the road that we, we needed. But what are some of the things you've seen and, or some stories around like, "Oh, we just need to redesign this flow, and yeah, it's gonna...
We have to close the practice for a short period of time. It's gonna cost this," but then the amount of revenue they make after the fact, uh, solves that problem. What, what are some- Yeah ... of your stories around that?
Carolyn Boldt: Well, yeah, the, the one that, um, in fact, we're putting her on our portfolio this, this, end of this month, and she...
That's a perfect example. That- Mm-hmm ... she just was totally convinced she couldn't do anything different, and she needed to make this addition. And, um- It was looking at each one of the spaces that she had and was there ... It was construction. Right. But she did it over weekends, [00:33:00] and she never shut down.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Oh, great.
Carolyn Boldt: So yeah, it's possible. It is possible. Mm-hmm. I mean, it's not- And your
Dr. Kevin Christie: patients, the patients are usually pretty understanding. You know? Like, okay, yeah, this area may be under construction on the weekends and doesn't look great right now, but we're
Carolyn Boldt: improving. Well, what we love doing, we ... And, and here I'm talking about Crossfields, but I have to.
Yeah. Right? Is that we create renderings of what it's gonna look like.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Oh, nice.
Carolyn Boldt: Coming soon and getting excited, and that does help. It gets the whole patients excited- Yeah ... about it coming. And- That's
Dr. Kevin Christie: cool ...
Carolyn Boldt: every time somebody renovates, their-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah ...
Carolyn Boldt: their, uh, referrals go up every time.
Dr. Kevin Christie: I- it's funny. I, I b- I go to Lifetime Fitness here in, in Boca, and it's been a two-year renovation.
Like, it's a ... Y- you know, Lifetime has their typical type of box gym, and it's really nice and they're very, uh, you know, high-end and all that. And they took over an old athletic club that was here, so they've been, you know, th- they've been in a wrong type of building for them for a while. But [00:34:00] yeah, they can't move.
Like, uh, it's perfect location. Everything's great other than ... But they've been renovating this thing, and it's a real pain in the ass. I mean, there's been times where the men's locker room is shut down for two weeks and, I mean, it's just ... They had porta potties outside to go to the bathroom for a while.
But now the men's bathroom looks amazing. Um, but they did a good job of at least, like, rendering and this whole ... Like, they put a big screen TV on there, and there's ren- ... You know, like, so you're kind of excited about what is coming. And it's getting there, but I mean, it's been quite a process.
Carolyn Boldt: Oh my gosh.
Dr. Kevin Christie: But I don't think they're- Yeah ... I don't think they're hurting for business. I don't think they've lost any business, so it, it's, it's fine. Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: Yeah. I mean, and, and renovation is- You know, you have to weigh it out, right? Yeah. You have to weigh it out. But what you just said, if that location is primo, then it's- Mm-hmm
looking at all the possibilities and looking- Yeah ... at how you do it. And, um, and you always have to weigh against, "Do I put this money into it because I'm gonna grow?" Mm-hmm. It's an investment.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: You know? It's not like your house, [00:35:00] where that's- Yeah ... your ego. It's your
Dr. Kevin Christie: Well, i- it's so true. Like, I've said to people where, like, you know, spending $60,000 to renovate your kitchen is different than spending $100,000 renovating your office, right?
I mean, you better just really want a new kitchen or... I mean, yeah, technically there's an ROI, uh, on if you sell your house, but, you know, once, if you have, if you don't sell the house within a few years, it's already outdated, so
Carolyn Boldt: That's true. It's true.
Dr. Kevin Christie: That's true. You're, you're- That's- ... getting the ROI.
Carolyn Boldt: That's true.
And we know the stories of people that renovate that they're gonna sell, so they renovate- Mm-hmm ... so that they can sell.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: And then they wish that they weren't selling, you know? Yeah. Or they decide not to sell because, "Hey, this is nice now." Yeah, so it- Looks
Dr. Kevin Christie: good. Looks good ...
Carolyn Boldt: that, that thing too. So, yeah.
Dr. Kevin Christie: So do you find some people's offices, they either, the flow of the space isn't ideal and/or they've just wasted certain space? Like, they've got a... Like, I, I have a kitchen that's just way too big, you know? And I've [00:36:00] got, um, a, a storage room that I, it's hard to say it's way too big 'cause you need it, but there's definitely things where some people, it's not the flow per se of what they're utilizing.
They just got space they're not utilizing ap- appropriately. Do you just find that happen?
Carolyn Boldt: W- yeah, I mean, that's, that's one. We were talking about the kitchen.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah
Carolyn Boldt: You know, maybe it's way too big, so what else can you do in there without tearing down walls, and then can you encapsulate in that into something else?
You have to weigh that out because-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah ...
Carolyn Boldt: kitchens are one of the most expensive things you can mess with. Yeah. Anything- I
Dr. Kevin Christie: yes,
Carolyn Boldt: exactly ... one of the most expensive things you can mess with. Yeah. But, um, yeah, just looking at what, what... A lot of times we will see the ... I, I wouldn't say universally there's always one thing.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Carolyn Boldt: Um, probably the most common thing though is people moving into or buying a space that's already been built out, and them doing the [00:37:00] minimum amount of build-out when they move in- Mm-hmm ... just to get into it. Yeah. And then realizing that it's bottlenecking them. Yeah. Whatever it is, you know?
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Carolyn Boldt: Hallways that are too narrow can bottleneck people. Yeah. You know, you don't have a lot of hallways in your office. You have a pretty- Yeah ... open flow. Yeah. And we, when, when we did your office, we looked at the flow. The flow's-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. I, I- ...
Carolyn Boldt: fine because it's open and we-
Dr. Kevin Christie: I got lucky.
Carolyn Boldt: Yeah.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. Um-
Carolyn Boldt: And it's good.
And the way you have... You know, and your adjusting rooms are a little bit larger than most. Yeah. But, but y- we, we couldn't make more rooms out of it because there wasn't- Mm ... quite enough more. But sometimes- Yeah ... you can. Yeah. Like this one I was telling you in Anderson, she had one of her rooms was way too big, but it was si- next to another room that she was too small.
And so just by moving the wall and making- Yeah ... them equal, she ended up with two more-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm ...
Carolyn Boldt: flexible rooms that she could use.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. Um, the way my office was was that the three rooms were, are, they, they are what they [00:38:00] are and, and like to your point, making it smaller wasn't gonna do anything. Um, and then I had the, it was weird, this one room, it's now two rooms.
It was this huge, gigantic room, and we put a room, we put a wall right in the middle to make it two rooms, so that was easy enough. Uh, obviously it's a lot easier just to add one, one wall in the middle of it and make it two. And then the open, big open rehab area and walkway that we have, that was like, um, it had like one wall.
It has that, unfortunately it has that column that's like a re- a retaining column I can't, I couldn't get rid of. Uh, so we turned it like-
Carolyn Boldt: Oh, you can't do that.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, you can't get rid of it. No. They don't, they don't allow that. So I made it actually a little bit bigger and put a TV on, like so we utilized it.
Um, and then I just knocked down and opened up that space and that, that was easy to do. So um, I got lucky with that. But there's some things, like if I was a high-volume clinic, then I would a- I would have to make some changes.
Carolyn Boldt: Yeah. So it- Yeah ... worked for you. Yeah. You knew what kind of clinic you were and what worked for you.
Yep,
Dr. Kevin Christie: yep, yep. Exactly.
Carolyn Boldt: And made [00:39:00] that, that function. So. So, so it, it, so s- it always starts with an analysis of what do you need.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: What do you need? And what do you need to function well, and what do you need to brand and bring your ideal patients in? Yep. Exactly. And from there, then you can look at, okay, what do I have?
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Carolyn Boldt: And how does this, what do I need compared to what do I have? And then- It's all- ... you know, it's pretty, pretty simple that way.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Well, this has been great. I recommend our audience, uh, check out some of the other episodes. Just Google or AI search, um, what ep- other episodes Carolyn was on, where we talked about...
I remember we talked about the psychology of a nice office space. We talked about all kinds of good stuff. And so if you're really in that mode right now, I would recommend listening to those. And then where can they reach out to you?
Carolyn Boldt: Um, crossfieldsdesign.com. Awesome.
Dr. Kevin Christie: And-
Carolyn Boldt: And you can also Google chiropractic office design, and we come up.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. [00:40:00] And there's a lot of good resources on your website as well, which I, I think is great, so they can check that out. And, uh, and they can at least have a conversation with you.
Carolyn Boldt: Yes. Yes. And very specifically, there's two blogs- Mm ... that address both of these main topics that we were talking about today.
So-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah ...
Carolyn Boldt: I guess you can share that somewhere along the way.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Absolutely. We can put that on there, so.
Carolyn Boldt: Okay.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Well, thank you for your time today.
Carolyn Boldt: Thank you, Kevin. Appreciate it.