EPISODE 496: Modern Guerrilla Marketing
Hey, chiropractors. We're ready for another Modern Chiropractic Mastery Show with Dr. Kevin Christie, where we discuss the latest in marketing strategies, contact marketing, direct response marketing, and business development with some of the leading experts in the industry.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Welcome to another episode of Modern Chiropractic Mastery. Today, I'm interviewing Greg Crabtree again. He has been on the show before. He's done webinars for our mastermind group. He's a CPA, but he does a whole lot more than that really. Um, kind of on the... You think about him as like a CFO more than just doing taxes, and he, he really knows business, and that's why I keep on bringing him on.
And, uh, after this episode, I really felt like I, I got a bead on what a practice needs to start having as frameworks. There's obviously a lot of moving parts, a lot of things like forecasting. His firm does a great job of helping businesses, uh, e- even in PT and Cairo. And so we dive into a lot of some of the numbers that he's looking at and also get a really good breakdown [00:01:00] of what the economy is looking like right now and, and, and what we're dealing with.
So we're gonna dive into some of that as well. Uh, before we get into the interview, I wanna talk about Thrive, Thriving in Atlanta, last weekend in January. It's going to be, uh, awesome. You're really gonna get a lot out of this. This is gonna be a, a situation where you'll be able to fly into Atlanta easy, a lot of direct flights, affordable flights.
Well, I'm not sure if anything's affordable now, but, uh, more affordable than most. Uh, we have a five-minute tram ride to where the, the conference centers are and the hotels all right there. You're gonna have Mark King, Bobby Mabee, myself, Lindsay Mumma, Brett Winchester, Holly Tucker, Brandon Steele, all bringing business information, different, different topics that are all gonna work together, and you're gonna have heads down work.
You're gonna leave there with a plan. And Kurt Kibenberger will be our emcee for the event, and you're gonna get a chance to really learn from these doctors the business and marketing of a practice. You'll be able to connect with them between talks. We're gonna have a lot of great [00:02:00] opportunities, and we're trying to make it easy for you to get there, but leaving there with a, a real plan for your business, not just a potpourri of, of random speakers and, uh, stuff like that.
We're gonna really dive in it. That's gonna be January 30th and 31st, 2027 in Atlanta. You can just go to Bitly, B-I-T dot L-Y/thrive2027. That is B-I-T dot L-Y/thrive2027, and we hope to see you there. All right. Without further ado, here is my interview with Greg Crabtree
All right. Excited to have Greg Crabtree on the podcast again. Uh, just for those as a re- reminder, you can learn more about what he does and some of the stuff we talked about on the Simple Numbers, uh, on episode 316, and, uh, just we'll have some at the end talk about the different books that we have.
I've been a big fan of, of the books there. And so Greg, welcome back to the show. Um-
What's new in your world?
Greg Crabtree: Well, you know, I [00:03:00] mean, it's the, the economic reality of a stuck to slightly declining economy. And, uh, we were chatting, you know, before the show started that, you know, you know, I, I get accused of being Mr.
Sunshine when I keep telling people that, well, the real economy is probably declining about 1% to 2% negative GDP if you take AI, AI data century, um, you know, ecosystems out of it. The rest of the economy is, is, is lagging because we've got a flat population, actually slightly declining population. We're below replacement birth rate.
Borders closed. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, where is the new consumer gonna come from? I mean, you can have increasing output with technology and all that, but i- if you have increasing output and no more consumers, prices fall, and that's called a depression. You don't want that. And so, but [00:04:00] when, when people get their head wrapped around the condition, that's where the economy is, says, "Great, here's the silver lining.
If you're really good at executing, if you're the best business in your industry, that's ... y- you like this marketplace." And, and we're starting to see it in our data. I mean, I can tell you the, one of the things that frustrated me over the last 20 years is my best run clients didn't make as much money as some of the mediocre run businesses of the same type.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: And it's because you didn't have to be good when the market was exploding. Your best ability was your availability.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: Now there is a separation, and the good businesses are disproportionately not only getting market share gains as their weakened competitors fall off, but they're also more profitable.
They're getting rewarded on the bottom line.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: And, uh, and like I said, I ... If, if you're an entrepreneur that loves [00:05:00] to run a really good business, you, you love this marketplace.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: No, that's
Dr. Kevin Christie: awesome.
Greg Crabtree: And you just l- lean in to embrace it.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Now, would you say that kind of the combination of obviously the market is what it is right now or the economy is what it is, and then there was that sugar high of all the money given to a lot of businesses and people- Yeah
uh, and maybe that created some bad habits or covered up some bad habits for a little while and, and now that's, uh, all gone, and now it's, uh, everybody's
Greg Crabtree: left
Dr. Kevin Christie: with their-
Greg Crabtree: Well, the, the simplistic, you know, numbers are we put $15 trillion of stimulus into the economy at the end of 2020 through the
middle of '22 And in normal economic times when you have increasing numbers of consumers, when money flows through the economy, it gets reinvested. This 15 trillion didn't get reinvested. It, it stayed because the people, you know, the investors, the [00:06:00] business owners, the wealthy, that m- m- money ends up in their hands, you know- Mm-hmm
at, at the end of the day. And, and so they look around the marketplace, they go, "Okay, what am I going to invest in?" And so the only investment right now, I mean, obviously, um, from an operating business standpoint, people are building data centers and, and AI, you know, uh, compute capacity, you know, like crazy.
And, uh, but outside of that, tell me what's growing.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: Nothing. Nothing. And, and, and so now it's not going to zero.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: And, and, and we gotta get out of this mindset of thinking, oh, we're not growing. Oh, the, the, the, the con- No. I mean, I mean, there, there's a lot of trading going on, you know, every day.
But there's ... When you don't have an increasing population, you really don't set yourself up for grow- e- overall economic growth. Mm-hmm. But, you know, but that's not necessarily bad.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: And, and think about it like [00:07:00] this. Every business goes through ... You know, when we go back and look at our clients over a rolling 12 life cycle of their business, they do not grow like this.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: They grow like this And, and so you, you do. D- do a step. Base- base camp growth is what I call it.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Okay.
Greg Crabtree: And so, and, and really what, what we're fighting right now in business is what I call the curse of incrementalism. Okay. And we, we've built our businesses over the last 20, 25 years in the most amazing growth economy the US has ever seen.
I mean, I, I, I think if you could actually measure real economic growth, which is not an easy thing to do, but I, I contend that the last 25 years has been the most amazing true economic growth in, in, in the economy, largely because of the position that the baby boomers had of where, you know, they, they finished their career, they were high producing [00:08:00] generation, and you, you make, you make the most money in the last 10 years of your career.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: And, and you're at the highest productivity, highest earning capacity. And, and that really set things up for finishing out, getting to 2020. COVID throws a monkey wrench in and it throws all of the data analytics off because you can't see clear trend lines. Mm-hmm. But when, when we look at our models for our clients that we had before 2020, we ha- we've had after 2023, if you throw out 2021, '22, you start to see that trend line continue.
And so those businesses ... Now, the, the one thing that doesn't continue is if you're in a discretionary product or service You didn't do this, you did this. Y- y- your trend line broke and flattened, and you're actually in a slight decline to find the new volume level that [00:09:00] you're going to perform at going forward.
Okay. And, and, and in some cases, you may not even be viable. Mm-hmm, yeah. You know, because if you're, if you're in, if you're in fixed location retail-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm ...
Greg Crabtree: I mean, you're in a street fight just for survive. I mean- Yeah ... if you, if you sell things at a street-level retail, I mean, online is just killing you. And, um, and then, you know, you got street-level, you know, restaurants.
I mean, a lot of restaurant chains are the, in the mid-tiers are really getting hammered.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: They're gonna, they're gonna find their way, 'cause we're gonna eat out, you know? Mm-hmm. And, and, and settle out. But you're seeing a purifying of the market of- Yeah ... I, I, even in good industries, you're seeing 20 to 30% reduction of numbers of competitors in a market.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: Because the people are throwing their hands up. If you're not a good operator, you, you know, you, you just can't survive. And, and so those people are saying, "Get me out of here. I, I..." [00:10:00] You know, I either ... If they're close to retirement, they're gonna retire. If they, uh, if they're not close to retirement, they're gonna get a job somewhere.
Yeah, yeah. And, and, and go to that. Um, and so we're in this kind of reset, but then once it gets reset, you know, from our data, I would say what we got right now is what we're gonna have for at least the next two years. I mean, I, I, I don't, I don't see anything changing, no matter how midterms come out.
There's not any political will in Congress to do a, a major economic stimulus. They'll, they'll talk all the time about, oh, we're gonna do this, do that. It's not nothing major. I mean, there- Yeah ... there's ... You know, they're not gonna put $15 trillion back through the economy like they did, you know, after COVID.
Mm. And, and arguably that, you know, there was some bad stuff, you know, that happened- Yeah ... because of that. And, and, and so, but realistically, like I said, I encourage the entrepreneurs that are listening to this, hey, lean into this and be, be the [00:11:00] best, you know, at what you're doing, and I think you will realize that you're gonna gain market share, you're gonna gain profitability.
We're, we're still not seeing price being an issue. I mean, and, and I, I really think people in this soft marketplace have to- Mm-hmm ... you know, don't undercharge, you know, for things. Um, you know, you, your lack of business is not because of the price you charge. The lack of business is, is maybe either your performance, and you gotta be honest, look in the mirror and say, "Hey, are we really world-class at what we do?"
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: And then, then, then two, you know, you're just finding the floor in your marketplace of saying, "Okay, this is more my consistent demand." Um, and then- And, you know, making sure that you don't fall asleep and, and say, "Okay, you know, I gotta keep marketing, you know, to, you know, new patient flow, new, new customer flow."
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: You know, and, and make sure that I, I don't rely on, um, you know, you know, everything's busy coming through the door right now, but [00:12:00] if, if w- if I get lazy and don't keep my name out there, that signal starts to erode, you know, over time. Um, but now when you get into marketing techniques, I mean, oh, uh, I, I don't think I would want to be a marketing company right now.
Oh, my goodness. I mean, they are- Yeah ... scared to death of what AI is doing- AI ... to their business models and oof.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. You know, but, uh- It's gonna be fascinating, and I... You know, obviously our goal is to, to turn these folks into good operators, like you said. And I liked what you just mentioned real quickly about the signal- Mm-hmm
is I do think a lot of times chiropractors- Mm ... or other business owners rest on their laurels, and what got them to where they were in 2014 or '16 or '18 isn't gonna get them to this next step, and so they have to start- Yeah ... rethinking it. And that's why I wanted to have you on, 'cause I wanted to, to really kinda discuss the bigger picture of the finances of scaling, right?
Mm-hmm. Of scaling a, a business. And so since, since the last time we, we spoked about, say, hiring, uh, what's been the number one [00:13:00] financial mistake you're still seeing, say, practice owners make as they try to grow as it relates to, to hiring?
Greg Crabtree: Well, I, I think they need to understand we're, we're... we've probably got the softest job market right now than we've had in 25 years.
And so if you're not looking to upgrade your team right now when you have team deficiencies, you're- Mm ... you're leaving money on the table. I mean, I, I would, I would be out there, you know, recruiting. Um, I, you know, at, at the end of the day, I mean, let- let's go back to the discussion about scaling. So I wanna-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm
Greg Crabtree: make a fine point here.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yep.
Greg Crabtree: So, um, I get to teach executive ed class at Wharton Business School with a couple of legitimate professors, and they let this chicken farmer- ... from Alabama hang out with them and, and say a few words. But one of the professors, Gat Allen, he, uh, the last two years, he's brought up this great topic of, okay, they're scaling and growing.
They're not the same thing.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Okay.
Greg Crabtree: So when you say scaling- Mm ... scaling [00:14:00] means your margins are increasing in, in dollars, but your costs are relatively flat. Yeah. And so you're creating a separation of the margin curve to the cost curve. Mm. That's scaling. And every business goes through a moment of scaling to get to their optimal performance levels.
And so, so everybody that's, everybody that's listening to this that's not at 20% profit gross margin, you, you, you got some work to do. You need to scale to get to that- Mm-hmm ... 20% profit gross margin at least. 25 would be even better.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Okay.
Greg Crabtree: And then, then you run into forces of the market that you will grow then from there.
Your, your margins and costs will pace with that same percentage. But when you're at 10% profit gross margin, then you need to scale to get to 20, 25 profit gross margin. Mm-hmm. That's, that is scaling. And [00:15:00] then from there, the market won't give you any more. I mean, le- le- lest you find the, the, the Holy Grail that nobody knows about.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: Um, you know, the forces of the market take over. But growing's, growing profitably is really good.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm all for that too. I'm gl-
Dr. Kevin Christie: I'm glad you did that, 'cause I feel like scaling, you know, just like any word or any idea, gets, uh, overplayed, and then you get some people out there that, um, are, you know, fly by night influencers, and they talk about scaling, and it's all about, you know, how, how do you go from $2 million to $200 million and, and all that, and they, and they use the word scale.
But I'm glad you just defined that, 'cause that makes a lot more sense for me.
Greg Crabtree: Well, and, and I've always ... Just the things that drive me nuts is that people are revenue focused, and it's like, well-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah ...
Greg Crabtree: uh, th- there's a great Saturday Night Live skit called The First National Change Bank, you know? And they go-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm
Greg Crabtree: you know, you know, "Four quarters for a dollar." "How do you make a profit?" "Volume."
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: And [00:16:00] it's like, okay, that, that's, that's not the game we're playing. And I get it, that there's been times in the economy where you could get away with that in the early dot-com era, but, you know, we, we, we saw what dot-coms survived and what, wh- ones didn't.
And then of late, more so, you know, businesses, you know ... I mean, you, you look at the private equity marketplace for startups right now, it's almost non-existent. I mean, so they're holding startups to a much harsher standard to get profitable very quickly- Mm-hmm ... which is part, what we talk about all the time.
And- And really, I mean, in this day and age, I, I question your sanity if you can't see a path to profitability within 12 to 24 months, you know, of, of any, any type of business activity.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: Now, as you expand, I mean, there's cash. You know, you gotta, you know, expand facilities, locations, whate- whatever type business that you have.
You know, but that's a different discussion. But y- you need to be [00:17:00] producing an accrual-based profit, you know, fairly quickly, you know, to validate your business model in, in this environment.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yep. No, that makes sense. And so-
Greg Crabtree: Mm-hmm ...
Dr. Kevin Christie: what's a, what's a warning sign that a practice or business is scaling on top of a shaky kind of foundati- financial foundation before it comes a crisis?
What are, what are some of the things there?
Greg Crabtree: Well, it... One of my pet peeves is, you know, the business owners are not looking at the most relevant data natively out of their accounting systems. And so, and that's kind of what we do in our simple numbers consulting with our clients, is take their data and give them a much more robust view.
But if you're doing it yourself, what I would tell you is-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm ...
Greg Crabtree: I'm looking at rolling 12 data. So I, I, I just got off a call with, with a client that, uh- Mm ... it, it's a, a PT practice, and we're- Yeah ... we're talking about they, they had a, they had a tough month in August and... But rolling 12, it's fine. The- Yeah
the tough month in August was because, well, that's [00:18:00] when the PTs took vacation.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: Okay. Well, you know, you can't bill anybody if they're on vacation. Yeah. I mean, but they only take a vacation once a year or twice a year, and so you can kind of plan in that. And so this is kind of where, in the simple numbers mindset, we, when we show a client data, first thing we're looking at is rolling 12.
I want to make sure that the first data I look at is the most authoritative data that I can look at, because if I look at a month's worth of data, which you and I know is very inaccurate-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah ...
Greg Crabtree: m- I, I can't get that out of my mind. Uh, I'm, I'm gonna... It, it can tell me things are great when it's, they're not.
They're gonna tell me things are bad when they're not, because it's a too short of a period of time. Rolling 12, all 12 months, all four seasons, every dog ate your homework excuse is in that data The second piece of data I'm looking at is rolling three, so that's my more near-term trend. So if you're a business in transition-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm
Greg Crabtree: you know, if, if we're, if we're working with a client and trying to get [00:19:00] them to fix things in their business, what we're gonna focus on, uh, in, during that transition phase is looking at rolling three and annualizing that number of saying, "Okay, here's really where your practice is at right now," and that, that's the mindset that you gotta have.
And those are the two data points that I'm looking at. And so if I'm looking at rolling 12, am I getting better? Am I getting worse? That, that's really the main thing that, that you're paying attention to, and it gives you an early warning system to respond. Mm-hmm. Because if you're just fighting in the soup of the day-to-day, you just don't have a sense of that.
And then if I'm in the middle of changing things, I'm using the rolling three to get shorter-term picture of is, is what strategies I'm deploying working and, and producing, you know, in that environment. Um, but really I think, you know, right now, I mean, the, the, the practices are fighting, you know, this thing of, okay, you've gotta get patient [00:20:00] flow, you know, in, and, and so is your marketing working?
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: The, the, the feedback that we get from our most effective practices is, you know, they're, they're, they're heavily involved in their own marketing. They're using, yes, some outside, but the people that are just abjectly giving over their marketing plan to an outside agency, those are the people that have the worst performance, you know, right now.
Mm-hmm. And so you, you've gotta be actively engaged in your marketing plan. Mm-hmm. And, um, and, and realistically, I mean, um, you know, we're, we're fan of the cash pay practices both in chiropractic and, uh, in PT, and in those practices our s- our top performing practices in those genres are making, uh, they're, they're spending 12% of revenue on marketing.
12%. Which means, yeah, which means they have to have a higher labor efficiency ratio target. But I mean, but I'll, I'll, [00:21:00] I'll tell your audience, here, here, here's the two num- the, you only n- you only need to know two numbers to run a successful practice.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: Number one is you, you probably need to spend 10 to 12% of revenue on marketing.
Number two, you need $2.30 of revenue for every, every dollar that you have in labor that includes you, practice owner, producer at a market-based wage. Mm-hmm. So if you're, if you're lying to yourself and not paying you a mark- like, not paying yourself a market-based wage, you're letting yourself off the hook.
You're not creating a real profit. And so we want you in a market-based way to be in that 230 number. And- Got it ... and now if, if you're in, if you're a mature practice, have a really good word of mouth marketplace and you're not having to spend money on ad placements, um, you, you can drop that LER down to two- Got it
and, and still probably hit 20% [00:22:00] profit, you know? But- Yeah.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Could you just define that for us? I, I know I know it, but the audience as far as a quick way of understanding that LER
Greg Crabtree: Yeah, so la- labor efficiency ratio is quite simply, it thi- So I learned this the first year that I did the Horton program, and the professor was...
I, I was sitting through the class just like everybody else the first year, and, and the professor was talking about h- how to develop a key performance indicator. And so generally, a key performance indicator is a, is two numbers in correlation.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Okay.
Greg Crabtree: And so if you think of a fraction, the denominator, so it...
For those of you out there that are fractionally challenged, the denominator is the bottom number and the numerator is the top number. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And so make sure... So the denominator is the input number. Mm-hmm. What i- what number, what cost are you inputting to then the numerator is the output of what you got for that input.
And so labor is the input, revenue and margin. So i- [00:23:00] you know, talking to chiropractic practices, you really don't have any cost to get sold. And so I, I would normally say cost to gross margin, uh, but gross margin and revenue for a chiropractic practice is essentially the same number- Mm-hmm ... you know, in that, 'cause you just don't have any out-of-pocket consumables to speak of.
And so you, you, you can simplify it to say, "Hey, I need $2 or 30 cents of revenue for every dollar of labor in the practice," which includes the owner of the practice down to the front desk person.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Perfect.
Greg Crabtree: I don't, I don't care, I don't care what anybody does. Take, take- Yeah ... you know. And so when you're trying to fix performance for October, and if you're gonna spend 10% of revenue on marketing, I'm gonna tell you, take the sum of all your labor for October, multiply it times 230, that's your revenue target to go produce in October.
So are you selling enough? And with your scheduling, are, are you getting enough past the cash register, you know? Yeah. So y- you may have [00:24:00] enough lead flow, but your schedulers and you're pushing things out, and you're not working a full day or, you know, all of those kind of things. Yeah. And, and I've, I've been fond of lately been telling everybody, say, "Listen, y- you cover your overhead in the middle of the day, but you make half of your profit of how well you start the day, and you make the other half of your profit of how well you finish the day."
Dr. Kevin Christie: That's good.
Greg Crabtree: And, and-
Dr. Kevin Christie: I like
Greg Crabtree: that. Yeah. And, and- So- ... and to be an excellently run practice, I mean, just, just how well do you start the day, how well you finish the day- Mm-hmm ... i- is where I would start in operational performance.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. People said, like I did a podcast, a solo episode, I don't know, six months ago, and it was like, "When are you ready to be a pro?"
Like, you gotta be a pro at this, and you, and that's what a pro does. Um- Yeah. Mm-hmm ... so kind of just to reiterate here, so if, um, if payroll or labor costs We're $100,000. That practice needs to be doing 230 a year in revenue just for simple- Yeah ... math purposes- Yeah, that's it ... and then you can just obviously extrapolate out [00:25:00] as you're going there.
Yeah, and, and
Greg Crabtree: that's just, and that's just gross wages. Don't, don't get confused- Yeah ... about payroll taxes. Payroll taxes is in that multiplier, you know? Yeah. So you're just looking at gross wage.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Just gross wages, yeah. And then, uh, yeah, so it's easy, like, not easy, but, like, now you have parameters, right? Okay, if I'm gonna grow this business, I'm gonna do it right.
One of them is is I gotta be accurate with my payroll costs. I can't be bloated, obviously. And I know you've mentioned- Yeah ... on the webinar you did for our mastermind group was sometimes you see people, they're too low on labor and they burn their team out. Yeah. And that's a problem, obviously. So we gotta- Yeah
have a sweet spot there, which I love. Uh, then you talked about, okay, now to have proper margin and, and, and money, yeah, you can, you need to be able to spend 10, 12% on marketing to get people- Mm-hmm ... in there and, and do that, which I, which I love. Um, then there's a couple other things here. You kind of touched on it.
You have four keys- Mm-hmm ... and I wanted to revisit, but the f- one you mentioned was owner's comp. [00:26:00] Uh, you know, l- let's say the owner has to theoretically pay themselves, uh, 80, 85, $90,000 a year as far as- Yeah ... as a market wage to replace them. Yeah. Maybe, and, uh, that might change- Mm-hmm ... where they're at, but that would go into your labor costs.
Is- Right ... is that a fair number, 85?
Greg Crabtree: That's, that's... Uh, that's probably a little low. Yeah. I mean, I'd, I'd probably be looking at, at, you know... B- because there again, I, I want you to be on the high side. I want you to stretch yourself. Yeah. Because it... But here, here's why you gotta put a market-based wage in there regardless of what your tax accountant says trying to save you payroll taxes.
That's a, that's small ball Economically, behaviorally, you will defend payroll before you'll defend anything else.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Gotcha.
Greg Crabtree: And so when you put your number in payroll, you will work like the dickens to make sure you get a paycheck.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: And then once you get that, it creates the momentum that- Yeah ... you can then aim for that profit.
And, and if, if, if I get a fully [00:27:00] capitalized practice going, you know, we really like the discipline of don't, don't reach into the practice and pull cash out like a piggy bank. You know, once a quarter, you know, take a dividend, and after you set your cash position, you know, for, to be fully capitalized, you know, for that quarter, and then set aside your taxes.
You know, tho- those are three, three actions that you should do every quarter.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: Set aside your taxes, leave money in the business to hit your two-month cash target, and then what's left over you can rake as a dividend.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: And then w- once you get to that point, you're going to find that you can probably rake 50% of the profits after tax to you every quarter because you're not doing this.
Now, if you, if, if you take insurance assignment, you, you've got the extra cash flow issue of owning those receivables and waiting to get paid, and if you get- Right ... hit with, you know, processing delays or a [00:28:00] billing audit, you know, or those kind of things. And, and that's really where, you know, we, we've had much more success of consistent profitability with our cash pay practices- Mm-hmm
both in chiropractic and PT.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, definitely more predictable. Um, a question on the owner's comp. Uh, as the owner does less hands-on treatment and more managing, how should their pay evolve if they're kind of exiting out of care?
Greg Crabtree: Well, you know, so y- you gotta kind of decide of where you're going in the practice.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so if you're really going to be a, you know, one to two practitioner, you know, I would counsel you to not get out of treating patients- Mm-hmm ... because that's your highest best value.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: Um, and, and, and so now if you want to be a bigger practice and have three to four practitioners, multi-locations, okay.
And, and we've got clients in the, the industry where, you know, you, you, you get [00:29:00] out of treating patients at all, and you're just- Mm ... managing, you're managing the marketing, uh, and then that really kind of becomes the, the most key function- Mm ... uh, you know, in that. Because in the profession- professional services world, you know, people that are producers that get, get this bug of, "Oh, I, I wanna get out of being a producer," those are the businesses that fail.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: And, and it's like, well, I, I got news for you. I mean, I do little to no administrative stuff in my practice. Mm-hmm. I'm the, I'm the partner in charge of our practice unit. Yeah. But I spend half of my time talking to clients and half of my time doing this.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: And, and that's my highest best value. Mm.
And, and if I, if I ship ... And, and this is where I want everybody that's listening to this, put this through your head What would you pay a person to do the administrative things your, of your practice? It- Mm-hmm ... that's [00:30:00] not $150,000 job.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yep.
Greg Crabtree: And, and so I want the higher paying job. And so- Yeah ... and, and, and that really has, has probably, you know, hurt a lot of practitioners that didn't get proper counseling of thinking- Mm-hmm
that they could work their way out of not seeing patients. Well, I mean, y- you gotta be a 4 to 10, you know, uh, professional practice. Mm-hmm. And then, then you've got the conflict of, you know, you against them 'cause they're, they know that they're the ones producing.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: And, you know, and, and so y- you got all, y- you set yourself up for conflict, you know, in terms of
Dr. Kevin Christie: compensation.
It's, it, it's tricky. One thing I do try to make sure people know, 'cause I exited care, but it's because my MCM company is frankly- Mm ... bigger than my practice now, and I've focused a lot on that. But if I was, if I didn't have my MCM company and I just had my practice, uh, it wouldn't financially make sense for me to, to [00:31:00] exit care, that's for, that's for sure.
I-
Greg Crabtree: yeah, and, and I've seen some practitioners go into specialty areas- Yeah, mm-hmm ... that, and, and I really like that where you can get off scale of you're- Mm-hmm ... you're almost productizing a solution. Mm-hmm. So a lot of, a lot of the PT practices that we're working with right now, and some of the chiropractics are, are delving into regenerative care- Yeah
which is, is not priced on a m- a, you know, hourly basis, you know- Mm-hmm ... per procedure basis. You know, it's more of a wellness program, you know, in that. And so I think there's a way to transition to that- Mm-hmm ... that, I mean, uh, you know, I, I, I filled out a time sheet for every quarter hour of my life for the last 45 years.
I hate filling out a time sheet as much as anybody. But-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm ...
Greg Crabtree: you know, w- what are you doing to produce to get the value that you receive? And- Yeah ... and that, that, that's an economic physics lesson that doesn't go away.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, yeah. [00:32:00] Um, so, uh, uh, going into the profit, which is kind of second part of your four keys here, and- Mm-hmm
and you mentioned profit margin, you know, 20, 25%. I think sometimes you've mentioned- Mm-hmm ... you can go down a little bit if you're reinvesting. Um, but does the target profit change too much when you're adding doctors, or is it you tr- do you try to get it to stay fixed as a, as a profit percentage? W- what are your thoughts on that?
Greg Crabtree: I mean, really once you, once you get to be a practice at, you know, $400,000 or $500,000 of revenue, you can maintain that 20% profit target, you know, from there on. Mm-hmm. Yes, in a growth phase you might push it down temporarily-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah ...
Greg Crabtree: but that's really where you, you, you know, how fast can you grow back to on a rolling three to get it back to that 20?
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: Most cycles, the people that, that try to grow practices-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm ...
Greg Crabtree: they s- they stay in too long with an [00:33:00] underperformer before they, they- Gotcha ... they call it. And- Yeah ... and so unfortunately we, we, we got too many data points of people launching practices that have very rapid success when you get the right hire in there.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: And, and, and so... And, you know, and, and I get it. I mean, you know, you're gonna miss. Um- Yeah ... it, it, it's one of the hardest things to do no matter what the specialty is- Mm-hmm ... of getting that like-minded, you know, com- uh, compatible, you know, practitioner. Uh, and, and it's, and it's not based on the compensation systems.
I mean, you, you can, you can come up with 1,000 different ways to get somebody compensation. At the end of the day, I don't really care how you pay somebody. What I care about is did they get the market pay for what they produced?
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm.
Greg Crabtree: And if, if you can get that right and everybody understands how that number's calculated-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah
Greg Crabtree: you can have... You have the building blocks to build a practice, you know, in, in, in that regard.
Dr. Kevin Christie: And I guess I imagine you try to take that labor efficiency ratio [00:34:00] and reverse engineer what you can afford to pay someone or a structure. 'Cause I know, like- Yeah ... I don't even... I'm not sure what your thoughts are, uh, but, like, a, a lot of chiropractors, you know, they'll work off a percentage, right?
So it'll be a, a 50/50, a 60/40, and I've always thought the 50/50 gets really tricky for the owner. Um, is... What, what's a range of per- If you were to do the percentage for the associate doctor, what would be a healthy range where you can, can actually grow and have enough profit?
Greg Crabtree: Well, I, I'm not a fan of the percentage for the- Yeah.
Mm-hmm ... those very reasons because- Yeah ... y- when y- you're, you're running like a worker cooperative if you're- Mm-hmm ... paying on percentage. Yeah. And, and so it's like that doesn't make sense. And, and so you, you've got to get a point of leverage now. And, and then, yes, there's a incentive pay that kicks in, you know- Mm-hmm
but, but you, you really have to... Y- you know, [00:35:00] you as the owner takes the risk on the downside to gain on the upside. So that- Mm ... that's, that's really... And, and so somebody that is doing a percentage compensation, they're pushing the risk to their employee practitioner- To share in the downside and, and then, you know, that person gets the upside.
Mm-hmm. Well, that's backwards. You know, the, the owner of the business should take the risk on the downside. The, the producing practitioner, um, you know, um, you know, uh, th- they, uh, they get a little bit less on the upside after- Yeah ... you know, you have covered them. Gotcha. And once they, once they mature, then- Mm-hmm
okay, then you kind of reset. But still, at the end of the day, I mean, I, I, I, I said this to a client earlier today. I mean, I, I believe in the NFL model. The NFL is very successful in giving one-year contracts to 90% of [00:36:00] the players.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: And you're paid this year based on what you produced last year.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: And, and it's, it's a, and it's a function of two things. Number one is did you produce? Did you do your job in an exceptional way? Mm-hmm. And number two, how good a cultural fit? And so, and as I said, right now we have a soft labor market that if you got some non-cultural fits, this is a good time to go into the transfer portal business and, and get- Yeah
upgrade your team.
Dr. Kevin Christie: I like that. I like that. Um, so you could almost even just say, you know, if, if a, if a doctor you were hiring wanted to make $100,000, then they probably should be producing at least 230 in collections. Is that accurate? Mm.
Greg Crabtree: A little bit more because that, that doctor can't be under 230 because you've got non-billable people, you know?
Yes, that's right. And so that, that doctor labor efficiency ratio is probably gonna be 275-ish, you know, somewhere around there. Yeah. You know? But- Gotcha. Makes sense ... but once, but once [00:37:00] again, but that's really why I teach the overall labor efficiency ratio- Yeah ... of saying, "Okay, you know, uh, work, work backwards for the-" Yeah
"1st of October. If I got $100,000 of payroll, I need $200,000 of revenue. Can my team produce with, with the lineup that I have?"
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm. "
Greg Crabtree: Can my front desk people, my assistants, and my, uh, chiropractors produce 230,000?"
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: And if you can see a, a map to get that, then it's just y- y- you- your marketing kicks in and your executional scheduling kicks in and you go perform.
But if, if you hadn't sold enough, then okay, well, that, the, the, that's... You place your focus on marketing to make sure you sell enough. And then once you sell enough, then your operating systems of scheduling and execution and patient, uh, interaction has to be able to get $230,000 through, past the cash register in, in a 30-day cycle.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. I love that. I, I like how you said [00:38:00] mapping that out, 'cause too many times I run into chiropractors and they- They, they just have the wrong map and, and there's no way around it. It's not a- they, they could be b- I have plenty that are busy and broke, as I say, you know? Yeah, yeah. And, and the map is, is wrong.
So, uh, I love that. Um, all right, perfect. And then we covered... So number three on the four keys, we already covered labor productivity there. That's awesome. Mm. And then you talk about the four... You, you mentioned it already, but I wanna reiterate it 'cause it was in passing. But the four forces- Yeah ... of cash, pay taxes, repay debt, hit a core capital reserve, then distribute profit.
Um- Right. Yeah ... if people can get that right, then the, the sky's the limit, right?
Greg Crabtree: It is. You know, and, and you create a massive amount of consistency in business that you, you know, you, you match cash flow to profitability for a cash pay practice It's not one-to-one if you're taking insurance. And, and I- Yeah
you know, and, and realistically, I mean, in, in most markets, I mean, probably insurance [00:39:00] reimbursements for chiropractic is not that great, you know? No. And, and so- It's not ... but, uh, but if you're in a market that works, I mean- Mm-hmm ... you know, go for it. But you, just understand that you're, you're floating about 60 days of insurance.
The- Yeah ... you're, you're playing bank for the insurance company for 60 days.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And- That's for sure. Um, okay, cool. And then just a couple questions from there that kind of piggyback it. Um, I had some people asking this question, and I thought it was good. And I know everybody's, uh, I'm gonna bring up debt, and I know everybody's got their own psychology around it.
But from an objective- Mm ... uh, perspective, when is debt a reasonable tool for, for scaling, and when is it a sign that the fundamentals aren't there yet?
Greg Crabtree: Yeah, I mean, and so you, you look at debt for what the purpose it was designed for. And so- Mm-hmm ... two general types of debt is, you know, line of credit debt, and then fixed term note debt.
Mm-hmm. And so line of credit debt, I'm fine if you have a line. Yeah. If you're a cash pay practice, you don't [00:40:00] really qualify for a line because you don't have an asset to base that line off of. Mm-hmm. And, and so, so, you know, that, that's really kind of where you don't have any receivables. And, and so you, you, you really just...
Now, they, the bank may give you a small line just because of your personal financial, you know, wealth- Mm-hmm ... but you're not getting a traditional line of credit. But w- we want, even if you're a, a, a, uh, insurance, you know, uh, you know, uh, practice, I, I want you to have zero draw on a line of credit because lines of credit are crack cocaine for entrepreneurs.
They, they just don't manage it well, and you're... It, it, the evidence of having a balance on the line of credit and not having two months of cash in your bank account is an evidence that, that you're under-capitalized.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yep.
Greg Crabtree: And w- when I really started studying the difference of performance of fully capitalized businesses versus the [00:41:00] under-capitalized businesses, it is shocking.
It is shocking. And when you get to where you're playing on the cash side of the ledger all the time and you have nothing going on on the line, you got your two months cash, those are the fortress businesses that withstand every bump in the marketplace, operate well, don't operate in a panic, and, and they're, they're, they're just separating from everybody else right now.
Yeah. You know? Like, it, it's like the Red Sea parting.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: Um- And it's just amazing. It,
Dr. Kevin Christie: it makes sense. So then let's say, um-
Greg Crabtree: So on- ... the, the fixed term- On term- Yeah,
Dr. Kevin Christie: the... Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: Yeah. So on term debt, I'm fine with term debt if you're... Especially if you've got a practice that's entering into regenerative therapy that, you know, may have a 10 to 20, $30,000 piece of equipment.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: Finance it, you know, that monthly payment, because that monthly payment mentally is an operating expense in reality.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: Yeah. [00:42:00] It, the accountant is gonna go through all these gyrations to book it as an asset and make depreciation and take the payment and split it between principal and interest.
Hey, if you just expense the payment, you get to the same number at the end of the day.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: And, and so, and, and so that's really how we teach openers to, to view fixed term payment. And so I, I've got a client that is rapidly expanding in the PT space- Mm-hmm ... and, you know, we're taking somewhere between 100 to 150,000 is, is initial, you know, build out and equipment, you know, to start a new location.
So we're, we wanna take those, those, uh, expansion costs, put them in a five-year term note, and that's just an operating cost that that practice has to get over that nut, you know, to hit their target every month.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yep. Yeah. And, and so- Perfect. Yeah, I know, like, we recently, and I know a lot of people are buying shockwave therapy unit, and, and it's like buying a car.
Find- Absolutely. It's not cheap. Uh, but, you know, the, the ROI on it's been really, uh, impressive. Oh,
Greg Crabtree: it's, it's a mess. It, [00:43:00] it is amazing, and if, if any, if anybody's not doing that, they're just... They're missing o- on two things. I mean, I, I, I'm, I'm a very big user of the regenerative therapies myself- Yeah ... and it's like-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm.
Greg Crabtree: I mean, I, I, I feel like I'm 10, 10 to 15 years- Yeah ... younger than my chronological age just because of that. Because it helps me fix things rather than- Yeah ... mask the pain or- Mm-hmm ... or something like that. And
Dr. Kevin Christie: I know it's, uh, I, the debt thing I know is delicate for people, so I always, 'cause I'm a- Mm ... you know, I'm not a financial person, but I try to talk to them sometimes about it, and you can just tell they, they s- they almost have the same feeling of getting into a, an equipment loan as if they were in credit card debt.
And it's n- not the same thing, and I try to explain to
Greg Crabtree: them- Yeah ... but it's- But, but here's the psych- here's the psychology. Here, here's the reason why that, that feels that way. Because I, I'll, I'll do these talks to entrepreneurs, and we'll go around the room and say, "Okay, well what, what's your biggest challenge?"
And it's [00:44:00] invariably two or three people will say, "Oh, my problem is cash flow." And I'll look at them before we go to the next person and says- I'll guarantee you, your problem is not cash flow, your problem is profitability.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: And so my issue with debt, whether it's fixed term debt or floating debt, but more times this is really the, the sloppiness of the, of the line of credit debt, is you're, you've got a cash flow problem and rather than deal with the structural deficiencies of the business that are keeping you from being, hitting your profit target, you want to borrow money instead.
Well, that doesn't fix the problem. Yeah. That just adds to the problem.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: And, and it's like, that just, just doesn't make sense. And then I get my clients that are growing and they have cash and they, they start playing with the interest mindset of, "Oh, well, I got cash. I, I'm gonna just pay cash for that piece of equipment."
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: No. I mean, that's just ... [00:45:00] And, and it's like, you, you wouldn't prepay a year's worth of your copier lease, would you? No. Well, that's the same thing. I mean, and it's like, just let, let it pay off as, as you're using it, and you're matching the revenues and the costs that match off, and that gives you this consistent stability of what your business is producing.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: And I, I, I use a, a sod farm client of mine as a classic example. So we were helping them expand their retail side of the business and, um, we were talking about, you know, growing it, and they said, "Well, what, what's your barriers?" I said, "Well, you know, we're using a third-party delivery service, and they're just not always available."
I said, "Okay. Well, you know, what, what solves that?" He said, "Well, a delivery truck." "Oh, great. How much does the delivery truck cost?" "200,000." "Great. What's the monthly payment on a delivery truck?" "2,200." "Okay. How much margin do you get from one pallet of sod [00:46:00] that you sold that you wouldn't have sold otherwise?"
"$800. Well, if you sell three more pallets of sod, which you can do in one day because you have a delivery truck that you control, it pays for the truck, and the rest of the 29 days left in the month you can make more money."
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, yeah.
Greg Crabtree: That's awesome. And that's the m- that's the mindset that you've got to get into of removing barriers to profitability.
But whenever I hear somebody say cash flow, I say, "No, no." It, it's ... I mean, the ... Especially your, your audience. I mean-
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm
Greg Crabtree: A- absolutely. If they have a cashflow problem, they got a profit problem. Gotcha. And we, we gotta, we gotta fix that. So...
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yep. Yep. Well, that makes a lot of sense. Well, Greg, this has been, been great.
Um, you know, I, I think just a few take homes from today was awesome, was just the difference between scaling and, and just growth, right? Mm-hmm. And then just the, the forces of what it looks like to maintain these healthy parameters. It's just like guardrails- [00:47:00] Yep, yep ... of what you need to stay within and make those decisions.
And some people might have not seen it on the video, but a lot of times it is a step ladder approach- Mm-hmm ... not just a skyrocket- Yep ... up in the air. And I think, you know, you know, there's a lot of people talking about scaling in a, in a sense to where it always should be this straight rocket to the moon, and that's just not reality.
Yeah. And I think people get themselves a little bent out of shape because they're, they didn't have 75% growth this year and, Yeah ... uh, and I, and I don't want people- Here's- ... to have that ...
Greg Crabtree: it, here's, here's one thing I would get your audience to focus on.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.
Greg Crabtree: Hey, quit talking about scaling the top line.
Let's scale the bottom line.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm. I love that.
Greg Crabtree: You know? I mean, and so- Love it ... I mean, you know, and, and, and realistic- and, and, and so here, here's some numbers that'll tell you how to do it. So in our 100 company model, we split it between our companies that are up versus companies that are down. Two-thirds of the [00:48:00] companies have increasing revenues, one-third have declining revenues.
Of the ones that are increasing, they went, they, they grew at, uh, 18% year-over-year revenue. Okay. Now, when you grow revenue, there's three, three factors in that revenue growth Did you change your prices? Did your market increase or decrease? And what's left over is market share.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Gotcha.
Greg Crabtree: And so, so we, we've got to get a little better about, uh, when revenue changes, y- there's three different reasons why it changes, and we gotta understand- Yeah
it, it, it's not just a generic change.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: Now, in addition to that, though, they went from 16% profit to gross margin to 19% profit to gross margin.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Gotcha.
Greg Crabtree: So you got an 18% at the top. You got a 3%- Mm ... increase at the bottom. That translates into a profit [00:49:00] increase of 58%.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Huh.
Greg Crabtree: So to take, take, this the magnification effect- Yeah
of those three extra percentages points of profit to that 18% growth creates the 58% profit increase. Gotcha. So like I said- Wow ... let's, let, let's learn to scale the bottom line, not the top line.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. I love it. I love it. Uh, where can our audience find out more?
Greg Crabtree: Uh, simplenumberscri.com. Uh, and if you just Google Simple Numbers or Greg Crabtree, we're probably the easiest people to find in the world.
Mm-hmm. Uh, and so, uh, so that, that, that should be never an excuse to find us.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Absolutely. And, and Mike from your team, uh, shared with me a really good, um, breakdown of some of what you offer as far as almost- Yeah ... like a fractional CFO- Absolutely ... type of sesh- set up, and you work with a lot of types of businesses, including healthcare.
And so I'll, if anybody wants that, they can email me directly. I can send that over to you, or obviously they can ask Mike for that as well, so.
Greg Crabtree: Yeah. And, [00:50:00] uh, and also we've got our first annual summit coming up in Austin, November 9th through the 11th, uh, the Simple Numbers Summit. Um, and so, uh- Nice ... if you wanna, you know, kind of come hang out with entrepreneurs that, you know, apply.
I mean, we really love to get clients together. I mean, so- Yeah ... maybe a lot of practitioners don't want their clients to talk to each other. We really like our clients to talk to each other and, because there is the one unique thing. If you're one of our clients, you actually can have a relevant discussion with any one of our other clients, even if it's not in our industry, because- Mm-hmm
the data's the same.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: And we, we look, we look at this, you know, Simple Numbers structure for every industry, every country- It's all the same. And, and once you can have this common communication protocol, the in- the, the sharing from peers and discussion of business, even with people that's not in your industry, just goes up exponentially.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah.
Greg Crabtree: Which is [00:51:00] really fascinating. I mean, I, I, I just, I mean, I, I, I really like clients to get together with people from other industries- Mm-hmm ... more so than their own industry, because it just expands your understanding of business in general. Yeah. And, and y- I think you, you really become a much better practitioner, you know, when you really get outside of your own industry to start studying business.
Dr. Kevin Christie: Yep. Absolutely. Well, again, thank you for your time today, and, uh, I'll- Yeah, dude ... I'll be talking to you soon, okay?
Greg Crabtree: Good deal. Thanks. Appreciate it. Thanks, Kevin.
I hope you enjoyed this week's episode, and if you wanna make the shift from busy, broke, and broken to time free and cash confident, or you just wanna continue with the exponential growth, check us out at modernchiropracticmarketing.com. Look at the MCM Mastery tab, watch the short video on there, and check out what we are doing now for evidence-informed chiropractors.
We are equal parts coaching and marketing done for you. Yes, you shoot some videos. We help you with campaign strategies and [00:52:00] ideas and really become a thought leader in your community. You shoot those videos, you send them to us, we produce, edit, and brand them to you, then we distribute them through all of your channels.
. So we essentially become your content marketing agency to make sure your practice is always having ethical, elegant content marketing to help grow your practice.
On the coaching side, we also help you with everything from marketing ideas to business, communications, finances, anything practice growth, and really try to help prevent you from being stuck on that island, and we hold you accountable. We have a great group of doctors that are just doing amazing things, and we look forward to help you out to take that next step in your practice.
So again, check us out at modernchiropracticmarketing.com and learn more.