EPISODE 487: Bulletproofing your active Rehabilitation care with Cody Dimak, DC

Hey, chiropractors. We're ready for another Modern Chiropractic Mastery Show with Dr. Kevin Christie, where we discuss the latest in marketing strategies, contact marketing, direct response marketing, and business development with some of the leading experts in the industry.

[00:00:00] Hey chiropractors, welcome to Modern Chiropractic Mastery with your host, Dr. Kevin Christie, where we discuss the latest in marketing, business, and professional growth with some of the leading experts in the industry.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Welcome to another episode of Modern Chiropractic Mastery. This is your host, Dr. Kevin Christie, and today I am interviewing Dr. Cody Dim dissecting active rehabilitation in different models, right? Not just having a, a rehab space or a clinic gym. What if you don't? What are some things to consider?

Uh, how to connect with other trainers, how, you know, s- best practices around at-home exercises and really implementing this into your practice, uh, no matter what your model is, and he does a great job of dissecting that out. Before we dive into that interview, uh, I do wanna make mention, you know, we, we got back a couple weeks ago from our, uh, East Coast mastermind where we had a scheduling institute come talk about [00:01:00] case acceptance or, you know, the sales process.

But really in a bigger picture, the, the overall patient experience. And I also was in London and talked and, and did a whole master class on patient experience with Dr. Chris Chippendale. And one of the things we, we didn't talk about in there, and, you know, it's a, it's a conversation that is, is always needed, but wasn't necessarily pertinent for the London master class or when we were in Maine for the mastermind, but that's what your office space looks like and is and what that, what role that plays in, in the patient experience.

And it oftentimes is a bigger role than you expect or ex- or, or realize, and it doesn't necessarily mean you have to have the Taj Mahal as an office. But there are certain strategies of flow, of design, of decor that really do make a difference. And so, um, one thing you should just look into, they got a lot of great resources, and that is Crossfields Interiors and [00:02:00] Architecture.

I used them back in 2022 for my practice, and you can go to crossfieldsdesign.com to check out more, uh, for your office space, whether it's a new build, a remodel, a moving of space, a touching up of decor, they, they got you covered. So check that out. All right. So with our interview today with Cody, we, we really, um, talked a lot about, um, really active rehabilitation.

I had my first experience with learning from Cody at the NPI Sports Summit, and we talk about that a little bit, uh, earlier this year, and it just was really a really good presentation. If you ever get an opportunity to hear him speak, he's very dynamic, brings the goods and, and has a communication style that is effective and, and actually coaches you on how to coach people on exercise in particular, and we dive into that a little bit today.

So excited to have him on the podcast finally and, uh, dive into that. So without further ado, here is my interview with Dr. Cody Dimock.

 All right, excited to have Cody Demack on the, uh, podcast today. [00:03:00] Uh, kinda laughing into it as we go. He, he gave me a, a pretty visual. I won't, uh, I won't brief you on it, but, uh, welcome to the show, Cody. How are you, man? I'm doing, I'm doing great. I'm great. I'm doing great this morning. How you doing? Good.

Doing it, doing well. Um, let's dive in. Uh, tell us a little bit about yourself professionally, kinda how you got going, some of the background on it, and what you're doing now. Yeah, so, um, so yeah, so kinda right out of chiropractic school, I, uh, my, my future, at the time future wife, now current wife, uh, and I, uh, ended up doing a CBI in California, so we ended up moving to California, and I'm, I'm, I'm from New Orleans originally, and, uh, and my wife's from South Dakota, so we didn't really have any ties to California or anything.

She just wanted to, uh, go experience it for her CBI, you know, just to say she did it. Mm-hmm. And then she ended up falling in love with Huntington Beach when she was out there doing that, so we ended up moving to Huntington Beach and started a practice in Costa Mesa, California, which is, like, one, one little city over, um, right next to [00:04:00] Newport Beach.

And so we, uh, we were out there for about seven years, and we started, uh, a, uh, an active care practice out there, uh, w- from scratch. And, uh, again, not knowing anybody in a, in a big w- in a big l- big world out there, um, and, and, you know, being the business guy you are, you, uh, uh, you'll appreciate this.

When, after we did our build-out, um, we, uh, only had three months of working capital to work with on a five m- uh, five-year lease. So, uh, we had to make it happen, and we did. We made it happen. Uh, we went, went out there, and we kicked some butt, and, you know, we, uh, kinda got to a point to where that lease was up.

We were doing really, really well. Mm-hmm. Got to a point to where our lease was coming up, and before the, the time came to, um, um, you know, renew our lease, like whenever something happened in our practice, we sat down, we kinda wrote out our goals. We met twice a year to kinda make sure we were moving in the right direction, and, like, if a door was closed, the next one would open, and that would be the one that we needed to [00:05:00] go through anyway.

Mm-hmm. And that, that even started with, like, looking for an office space, right? Um, but we were looking at all these other spaces, and, like, just nothing was popping up. Nothing was like, was kinda like coming to fruition, if you will. And so we- Mm-hmm ... sat down again. It was that time of the year. Sat down and kinda wrote out our family goals, our practice goals, and we always made sure those were lining up where we wanted to go, and we noticed that they were starting to kinda move away from each other.

So where our practice was going, um, ki- and where we wanted to go with our family and what we needed to do with our practice to keep that going in the direction they were starting to move away from each other. And so, uh, before we started the whole thing, you know, we made a promise to ourselves like, you know, family is gonna be first for us, right?

So we made the decision to, um, move back to the central time zone.

And so at the time it didn't make sense to start another practice. Mm-hmm. But we wanted to, wherever we were gonna be, we wanted to be driving distance [00:06:00] to family. So we could, you know, at least drive to South Dakota, at least drive to New Orleans, uh, to see family. Um- Mm-hmm ... in- instead of, like, a whole, a flight, or, like, the drive is just not feasible.

It'd be over 24 hours. Yeah. You know what I mean? So, um, so yeah, we started doing that, and we started looking for, uh, teaching jobs. Mm-hmm. And so the only place at the time that was hiring was Parker University, and so I ended up applying for, um, a clinic faculty doctor position in the clinic. Uh, ended up getting that position, and then, you know, in, uh, May of 2018, we ended up, uh, closing our practice in Southern California and moving to, uh, Dallas, and that's where we're currently at now.

And so we both currently teach at Parker University. . I started in the clinic, but then I transitioned into academics. Mm-hmm. And so I currently teach the, uh, it's called Physiotherapy 2, which is the active exercise course in the program that everybody gets. And I also teach an elective called Advanced Rehabilitation, where we kinda dive into more concepts of, like, uh, deeper concepts like McKenzie, DNS, neuro- uh, neurodynamics, um, uh, strength and conditioning.

And- and the [00:07:00] idea of those, that course is to kinda, uh, get the students a little bit more exposure to some of these things, uh- Yeah ... to try and make them take the coursework, essentially, you know, outside of the program and stuff to, uh... 'Cause I think it's, those things are invaluable. Um, we also go over, like, a lot of, like, strength and conditioning, um, and kinda teach them how, uh, rehab is actually not a separate thing from strength and conditioning.

It's just all scaled to the individual, and then where that person is in their current state. You know what I mean? So the, um, you know, we've, you know, I kinda brought this up I think in, back in March when we were in, uh, Florida. Yep. Like, the- the, it, just finding the entry point for- for patients is kind of like a big deal.

You know what I mean? For me anyway, and people see these two things of, like, you know, exercise and strength training and rehab as, like, these separate things. They're not. They're just, they're literally the same thing, they just have a different name for it, right? Yeah. So teaching people how to, uh, the students in particular at Parker, to try and, uh, scale things for their future patients is kinda like a goal.

Mm-hmm. The end goal anyway, so. Yeah, no, it [00:08:00] was great, uh, attending the NPI Sports Summit when you were speaking on that. And that was kinda where, I know we had played golf, and we had chatted, and I was like, "You know, I wanna get you on the podcast." I, I took a little hiatus from- from interviews, so we're getting to it now.

But I was like, you know, I, uh, you know, whether it's strength or it's rehab, however you wanna work on the continuum, practices need to have, um, some form of implementation of that, and I wanted to have you on today to discuss, you know, kinda what that looks like, right? We get- Yep ... some people where it's a huge part of what they do, right, in their practice.

They got a well-developed rehab area, and it's a big part of their care. And then you got other practices where they- they don't, but what- what they can do. So I- I kinda wanted to dive into that today. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Totally.

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Dr. Kevin Christie: what are your thoughts on kinda that- strength, rehab continuum, like where obviously putting people on there, but what, from the DC's [00:10:00] perspective, what are a couple nuggets they should be thinking about in, in regards to that?

Well, I think one thing that every DC needs to know and understand is, like, where are they at in terms of, like, knowledge and comfort on the topic, right? Yeah. So, uh, if we step back even from that question, um, there's no denying the benefits of exercise and strength training. Like, you can't deny it. Like, it's, it's- Yeah

you know what I mean? Not, and not just, like, for ourselves as well, right? And for- Mm-hmm ... our patients, you know what I mean? Yeah. So it needs to happen some way, shape, or form, somehow, some way. It needs to happen, right? And I think one of the things that DCs can, uh, can kinda like, you know, um, take a little bit of, like, uh, worry off for the back, if you will, is, like, you as a DC in your practice, you need to do what you're really good at.

Mm-hmm. Like, your, your gold medal, like, whatever your superpower is, you leverage that and you lean into that, right? Yeah. But knowing that the strength piece or the rehab piece [00:11:00] is a key piece to that, you know? And so one of the things that, um, 'cause I'm not ignorant to the fact that not every s- every student that I teach is not gonna integrate active care into your practice.

But how I frame the course is, regardless of your, what you think you're gonna do in practice, and we have this conversation, there's no denying the benefits of strength training, especially for your patients, right? Mm-hmm. If we're talking about actual long-term health, you know what I mean? So, uh, so but if that's not you doing the work in your office, then if you have the office to do this, you bring somebody else in there to do that, and you co-manage with an office, and then you're making more money, and, like, all these things, right?

Yep. If that, you don't have the space for that, then you need to find somebody in your area who you can co-manage with, right? Yeah. Is, is it a PT? Is it another chiro? Is it a strength coach? Is it a, you know, like, is it a personal trainer? Like, what, what does that look like, right? Mm-hmm. And then you co-manage that case.

Um, it, and it's, it like, you can, but you, the whole piece of this is, [00:12:00] like, it's not centered around you, it's centered around the individual in front of you. It's person-centered care, and then at the end of the day, that's what we need to be providing regardless. It's not technique centered, it's not doctorate centered, it's person centered.

You know what I mean? Yeah. And so , the, docs who are really good at adjusting and they don't feel like they're good at soft tissue or exercise, get somebody who's good at soft tissue and exercise. When we were back in Cali, I had... I mean, there was a chiropractor, like, you could throw, throw a rock and hit a chiropractor in any direction.

Yeah. But I had this, uh, there was an upper cervical doc that was, like, not even a mile from my office. So I get a call one day, and he, he asked, he said, "Hey, I, I hear..." You know, you just, you hear about other pro- Yeah ... you know, professionals around the area. He's like, "I hear you're really good with exercise and, and rehab and stuff.

Um, I'm struggling with a patient. Um, would you be open to assessing the patient and seeing, uh, what you think should be done from a soft tissue exercise standpoint and, uh, but let me do the adjusting?" And I told him, "Yeah, sure. Absolutely." Yeah. Like, I'm putting my ego aside. Like, I don't care. You know what I mean?

Like, I'm here for the person, [00:13:00] right? Yeah. And we got, like... I mean, the guy had treated the, uh, the patient for probably about, like, a month or two or something like that. I can't really remember the specific details. And then within, like, three visits they started, like, getting better really quickly. Mm-hmm.

And he was like, "This is great." And we ended up co-managing over 10 patients together. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So, like, the, the... You can do it with other, you know, people, even within the profession, you know what I mean? You just have to- Well, yeah ... find the right person and, and, you know, so. I wanna touch on that for a second 'cause it's something that I've talked to some of our coaching clients before on, and, and it goes, uh, often missed, is that, uh, what you should do in your community is look at the other chiropractors and what are they offering, right?

Like- Yeah ... example, like maybe you offer Shockwave and you... You know, I had a chiropractor who was a straight chiropractor, right, like you mentioned, and he came in to see me for ART and Graston, and then he noticed we had a laser, and so he started sending people over for laser, uh, and that was great. And then, uh, you know, the joint is in everybody's area now, and they don't take [00:14:00] complicated cases.

And so if you do active rehab and take on complicated cases, you could be a resource for them to send complicated cases to, right? Yeah. So I think that's something that you gotta take into consideration. Or, like the opposite, if, if you don't do any form of active rehab, um, you could connect with other PTs or even chiros that do it and refer.

Yeah. And you obviously wanna work... You know, we had a, a, a patient recently where he's coming in for Shockwave, but he sees a chiropractor for years that he likes for adjustments. I was like, "All right, we're not gonna do that," right? I'm not gonna step on their toes and, and, and he... And I let them know. It's like, yeah, let that chiropractor know you're seeing us, but we're not gonna do the adjustment.

Right. And having communication around that, I think you can co-manage rather, um, uniquely in your community. Totally. Yeah. I mean, like, you just gotta find the right person, right? 'Cause not, not everybody out there is a, a, quote, "good guy," you know what I mean? Oh, yeah. For sure. Or a good gal, you know what I mean?

There's, there's, there's, there's people who do try and leverage themselves like that, and then they kinda like, they [00:15:00] pull the rug out from underneath you. Uh- Mm-hmm ... so you always have to have that... I call it, I tell the students, you have to have a, a, a bullshit meter, you know what I mean? And that's- I mean that, I mean that not just, you know, within the, you know, the continued education space, and the, you know, seminar space, and these, you know, those people who are, like, these charlatans essentially, right?

But also within, like, within the profession when you're co-managing people, and other professions as well. So you always need to kinda try and pick up on those things. And you can usually kinda... You get the vibe, you know? You get the vibe from them and- You just, you just move on, so. Yeah. No, without a doubt, without a doubt.

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Dr. Kevin Christie: I wanna get your thoughts on, you know, you're a chiropractor, that you do adjustment, soft tissue. You don't, you don't do any form of active rehab in your, in your practice. Um, but you want to, uh, maybe you feel good about prescribing it. You got a particular platform where you can put it on there,- they can do it at home.

Mm-hmm. Uh, what are some of the, the best practices with that? 'Cause obviously I, you know, we could all admit that, um, at-home exercise prescription is probably not followed as much as we would like it to be. Totally. Yeah. Um, and yeah, like I, I was on a, a thread r- in Facebook recently, and I, it was c- it was about frequency of [00:18:00] treatment and duration and all that type of stuff.

And then- Mm-hmm ... I had mentioned that under-treating is probably, um, just as bad as over-treating sometimes- Totally ... in, in care. And someone had mentioned, "Well, it depends on how, uh, how much you're prescribing at-home care," and I, I didn't respond back. I was like, "Well, how many people are actually doing at-home care as well?"

Totally. I, I, we would love for it to be, but, uh, what are some of your best practices on that model? Yeah. Well, um, you know, as s- I know it's a lot. No, yeah, as simple as a question that is, it's actually a much more loaded question than you would think. Yeah. And, and specifically because it's not just about how many exercises you're giving.

But no, um, it's a lot, it's more loaded than you would think. So it's not just about how many exercises you prescribe, 'cause that's what immediately what people jump to. You know what I mean? So, like, the, uh, you know, I don't know if you've ever had, like, formal active rehab for anything, uh, with a chiro or a PT, and you get the packet.

You know, you get the low back packet. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You [00:19:00] get the cervical spine packet, you get the shoulder packet, and those packets have anywhere from 10 to 20 exercises that you're supposed to do either once a day or, like, three times a week. Uh, and it's uber high volume, and you look at it and it's like, "There's not a chance in hell I'm gonna end up doing this.

Not a chance." I think even me, you hand me something like that, I'm not doing this, right? Especially somebody who's busy, you know? Mm-hmm. And I'm, I'm talking, I'm not just talking about, like, you're suit busy. I'm talking about you're, you're manual labor busy too. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, the people who are busy, they're not gonna do it.

Even people who have time, they look at it, it is daunting. You know? Yeah. It's overwhelming, right? So that does play a role. Uh, so but I think other factors play a bigger role into this as well. So, like, uh, it does play a role in regards of, like, I'm trying to give somebody one thing that's feasible for them to take home.

Ideally one thing. The one thing that's gonna move the needle the most in their case, right? Especially earlier on. Um, I'm not gonna ... If I have [00:20:00] somebody, the only time I'm sending them home with more than one thing is if they're, like, an established patient or if they're a patient where I know, like, you already know their motivation is high for these things, right?

They're, like, a 10 out of 10 motivated, and you can hear it in their voice, you can see it in their, their actions and when they say it. You're like, "Okay, maybe..." And they're competent movers, uh, specifically, like, meaning, not competent, meaning, like, dysfunctional or anything like ... I'm talking about competent in terms of, like, they're willing to move and they're okay with moving, you know?

They exercise, like, all these things. Mm-hmm. I might give them two, maybe three exercises to take home, but they're only doing those once a day anyway, right? Yeah. And the dosage is relatively low. And we kind of do the mo- we do, like, movement snacks, so they s- they don't, like, have a devoted time. They, like, th- it's like eating throughout the day, you know?

Yeah. You don't wanna eat, like, one healthy meal and eat, like, crap throughout the day. You want, ideally, if you're gonna eat healthy, you space it out throughout the day, right? Same thing with those movement snacks, right? So, like, things that are gonna move the needle, kind of like just small dosages that are gonna keep pushing them in the [00:21:00] right direction.

Um, but, like, even if they have one exercise, boom. One exercise once a day. Always prescribe walking Yeah Always, always, always prescribe walking. That's a caveat there. I don't consider it a home exercise. I say, "Hey, it's activity. Hey, you gotta walk." Mm-hmm. And then you'll start seeing people get better. But I think that the...

your original question, again, like, it's more loaded because how we coach the exercise actually matters. Mm-hmm. 'Cause a lot of times we give people exercises and we say, "Hey, this exercise is to help you. It's gonna help your back, or it's gonna help your shoulder. It's gonna help the pain in your shoulder."

That doesn't mean anything to the patient. Mm-hmm. You think it does. It doesn't mean anything to the patient. 'Cause if you think back, like, people come in because they have pain, but that's not actually why they come in. They come in because their pain's not allowing them to do something they actually love to do, right?

Is it golf? Is it, you know, play with their grandchild? Like, anything along those sorts, right? Yeah. You need to identify that first And then build everything off of that. 'Cause [00:22:00] if you identify that, then you start having goals, right? And you start setting goals. And one of the things that we do a poor job of, uh, in the profession is getting patients to actually set goals.

Set short-term goals, set long-term goals, and then moonshot goals too. Like, what's, what's something you think that, that you would never believe to do, but, like, like, once in a lifetime you can maybe do it? That's a moonshot goal, right? Yeah. We get them to set goals, and then we get them to identify any fears and worries, because what you're doing when they identify fears and worries, you're identifying their barriers, right?

Uh, we ask them what's their motivation to do some of these things if, if we were to set programs or get with a strength coach or, or do things to start moving towards their goal. 0 to 10, scale of 0 to 10. Doesn't matter where they fall on that scale, 0 to 10. If they're like a seven out of 10, which is really high, say, "Okay, uh, Ms.

Susan, why did you pick a seven and not a six? Why'd you pick a seven and not an eight?" Now they're starting to... They are identifying their own barriers, and [00:23:00] once they identify their barriers, they can actually make the choice to do something different about it. Yeah. We try and make people change. We can't do it.

People have to make the decision themselves, but we can nudge them in the direction. It's called behavioral nudges, right? Mm-hmm. Um, you could take somebody and try and change their nutrition plan. Uh, give them a hard plan, they're not gonna follow it. Or you can give- you can nudge them and say, "Hey, uh, when you buy your groceries, I want you to buy all your groceries from the periphery."

Mm-hmm. Nothing down the aisle. And now they have to make healthy choices, you know what I mean? Yeah. So, like, the, the, you know, relatively healthy, 'cause a lot of times the beer and the wine's out there too- ... so you gotta be mindful of that. But, um, we start getting them to identify their own barriers. Mm-hmm.

We get them to, uh, set goals. Then our exercise selection is always explained according to their goal. "Doc, I c- uh, I can't, uh... You know, I'm having a little back pain. I can't... You know, uh, I need help." "Okay. Well, what is your back pain, uh, not allowing you to do that you love to do?" "Well, I... [00:24:00] To be honest with you, I can't get on the ground and play with my grandchild.

I can't pick my grandchild up." "Okay." You just identified somebody, basically a, what you would con- some kettle bell people would call a Turkish get up, or a variation of a Turkish get up, right? Yeah. And you just identified a hip hinge pattern, like a dead lift. Mm-hmm. Right? Something- Yeah ... to pick something up off the ground.

And so if you're working on hip hinging exercises or glute facilitation exercises or anything like that, you can't just say, "Hey, these are gonna help you." It's like, "No, okay. Do you know how you're having trouble picking up your grandchild?" "Yeah." "This exercise is gonna help you get more into your hips.

That's gonna offload your low back so you can pick up your grandchild without pain." Oh, now there's a why to what we're getting ready to prescribe to them. So when you start coaching the exercise, the attention's there, right? And when you f- when the, they do the exercise well, if you're gonna send them home with it, you film it on their phone- Mm

saying, and you coaching them with your finger there, and you give them the cue, whatever you're gonna give them. We're not [00:25:00] gonna talk, get into that stuff, but, like, you give them the cue and stuff. And then you say, "Okay, remember, this exercise is for what?" And you have them repeat it back to you. "This exercise to help me pick up my grandchild."

You got it. You know, we just wanna do this once or twice a day here. Uh, and then may- remember we wanna go for our walks here about 10, 10 to 15 minutes, about four to five times a day if we can. If you could get one in, that's e- that's better than none. Sound good? Mm-hmm. Yep, cool. Stop recording. Now there's a, there's a desire, right?

So that they talk back to you, it's a portion of the talk back test, they told you why they're doing what they're doing, right? And now again, they, now they're a little bit more accountable for some of those things. Mm-hmm. Right? And it takes a little bit more understanding, I guess, of, uh, within the history and, and, and, and within like the actual individual in front of you.

It's not just a pure biomechanical thing. So now we're kind of getting to the psychosocial components too. Uh, so it takes a little bit more from the chiropractor, or any other profession for that matter. But, uh, but honestly, that, that's how we get people to [00:26:00] adhere to exercise programs. Like, uh, students will ask me, docs will ask me, "How do you get people to do exercise?"

Like, honestly, I never h- I've never had trouble getting them to do exercise. It's just like they haven't done the why. You know, I didn't tell them why we're doing-

Yeah. Yeah. You know, and it's just, I always, I feel like it always goes back to effective communication, right?

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So check out www.p2ppathway.com.

Dr. Kevin Christie: , The one thing that on the communication side, um, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

I, I recently had a patient, um, she's got a trainer, and had a trainer for a long time. Awesome. And so I use that opportunity whenever I can is to, um, say, "Hey, do you mind if I, you know, reach out to your trainer and have a conversation about what you have going on, what I found, what maybe, uh, you're doing that's helping that, what things we could add?"

I always make it, I always frame it as like, "I want you to keep on working out with your trainer. I want to have a conversation, a dialogue, kind of as a team," like you can imagine. And, [00:28:00] and not, not come at it as like, "I wanna make sure you're not doing anything dumb with the trainer," right? Right. Um, it's more about like, "What can we add or alter right now while you're dealing with this and, and have a team approach to it?"

And, and I found that to, to be a great, um, level of care, rapport-building with that patient. Obviously, it helps with their overall, uh, communication with their, let's call it performance-based and health people. And then, yeah, you end up connecting with like-minded trainers oftentimes. Uh, is that something- Yeah

that you've seen work well, and any thoughts and strategies around that? You know what? You just nailed m- my, uh, marketing strategy on the head. Honestly. The, uh, you know, and it's sad that it took me two years in private practice, full-time private practice, to actually realize this. You know, that that was like where my actually niche, niche, if that had a niche, was- Yeah

from a marketing standpoint and networking. Um, that we always did that. Most of [00:29:00] my referrals came from personal trainers or strength coaches. Mm-hmm. And if they weren't, if they were, uh, ref- if they were a referral from another patient and they weren't with a personal trainer or strength coach visit, and if, if they weren't in, like, a lot of pain, you know what I mean?

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Visit one, I always asked them, like, what were their opinions on, uh, eventually getting with a personal trainer or strength coach, uh, to that. So they just kind of put the feelers out there and those things, and kind of, like, leaned into that as we progressed through thing when, when it was time to move them towards training and strength and conditioning.

But yeah, I, every time they... I got a ref- uh, a patient ca- that came in who was working with a trainer who I'd never worked with personally before or have communicated with, right? Yeah. Um, I always got permission, obviously, from the patient to make that call with the, uh, with the, the coach, and I always went to their place.

Uh, sometimes they wanted to come to mine, but I, I, um, like, they, if they insisted coming to my office, then I'd have them come. But I always like that first interaction in the environment that they're comfortable with, right? And it's always a face-to-face conversation. [00:30:00] Yeah. Um, so having those conversations, like you said, like, you don't wanna frame those conversations, especially if you know they're doing something that's kind of a little, a little, like, iffy for- Mm-hmm

what the person's doing or, um, what they, they have going on, or even if, like, the, you recognize that, like, their exercise, um, order is not very great, and that's why some of, a lot of their clients are getting kind of, like, you know, grumpy back or, like, m- you know, irritated shoulders. Like- Mm-hmm ... there's mismatches of, like, exercise, uh, intention and, like, dosage or volume or, or, or, like, load.

You know what I mean? So, uh, I always kind of frame those conversations, uh, with the - with the, the coach or the trainer, you know, I was, I would never tell them like, "Hey, don't do this," or like, none of that. I was like, you know, let's say, let's say I had a patient with, who had, like, some sensitivity to, um, let's say, uh, rotation and lateral shear or something, you know?

Mm-hmm. Um, low b- low back issues, right? [00:31:00] So, uh, I would always frame as like, okay, um, you know- Remember the, uh, the patient, you know, is, um, the exercises that are gonna be good for the, uh, for your, uh, your client would be like, you know, X, Y, Z. Uh, not like, uh, you know, suitcase carries or, like, any type of rotational things.

I know you wouldn't be doing those with the, with the patient anyway 'cause, um- Mm-hmm ... but, you know, you know, and I'd go on to explain it. And that always... I never pin them, say, "Hey, you're doing this," right? Mm-hmm. I say, "I know you wouldn't be doing that because they have sensitivities to these motions." And that would always make them ask a question.

We're like, "Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, what would you do instead?" Mm. You know? And so, and then, uh, you, it opens the door for an education moment without them feeling embarrassed, without them feel like shutting down. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think Maryanne would, would tell, my wife would tell you that that was kind of one of the things I did kind of well, is, like, leveraged, uh, in the conversation of, like, an educational piece, but without, like, making them feel kind of stupid or silly, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. Um- It's a fine line sometimes. [00:32:00] Yeah. But, uh, but one of the things too is, is I even- Even when I'm, I'm looking for new patients- Yeah ... one of the things I always did was I called a gym that I've never worked with. Mm-hmm. Uh, and I, I asked them to meet with the, uh, the owner of the gym, and how I framed it, I always framed it as a, "Hey, I'm, I'm a chiropractor in Costa Mesa.

Uh, I have a patient basis that actually comes from quite a bit, you know, diff- quite a few, uh, different cities in Orange County, California." Yeah. "And so, um, I'm looking for gyms and personal trainers or strength coaches to refer my patients to, uh, 'cause I have to play matchmaker, so it's both, like, location and it's, like, personality type and type of gym, like what they like."

Mm-hmm. "I ha- I need a variety, you know?" Yeah. Uh, nobody's ever gonna told me, tell me no, you know? Mm-hmm. They wanna- Yeah ... they wanna know, too, right? Because they want clients. They want, they want people to come in. Mm-hmm. And so we'd always go there, and, and within the first, like, five, 10 minutes, if you know a decent amount about exercise, you [00:33:00] don't have to be, like, perfect, like, you don't have to be, like, a, um, you know, a master at any of this stuff.

You already know if the person kinda knows what they're doing, if it's gonna be a good spot, and they always try and ask you questions about you. You answer the question, but then you kinda come back to them. They end up coming in as a patient, and then you do a good job with them, and they end up sending all their clients.

Yeah. You know? So it's- Now, did, in your practice, did you have a, a gym, or was it just rehab that you were doing in your- Yeah, we had an open rehab area. Um- Yeah ... we didn't, uh, we didn't start out with a ton of equipment. We literally had, like, some Perform Better mini bands. We had, uh, some GrayCook bands, and we had, uh, we had a, uh, couple kettlebells.

We had a eight kilogram kettlebell, a 12, two 16s, one 20, and 124 kilogram kettlebell, and then we ended up getting a, uh, this, this, uh, found at a garage sale. It was, like, this pull-up contraction that kind of- Mm ... acted r- really well for anchoring, anchoring bands, right? Yeah. The five... Like, right when we opened, we had, like, a, [00:34:00] a, 'cause we signed a five-year lease, our goal at the time, right when we opened, was to grow the practice, and then eventually have to knock down the wall- Mm-hmm

take over the suite next to us, and build the gym on that side. Yeah. But then, like I said, like, two years into practice, I, I started realizing that all my patients came from strength coaches and personal trainers, and not just one, like a lot of them. Yeah. And I was like, "If I do that, I'm gonna cut my feet out from underneath me."

You know what I mean? So that's, that's where I was- The shift ... kinda, I was leading you into this. Um, w- do you have any recommendations? 'Cause we obviously have a lot of listeners that do have a clinic gym model- Yeah ... or hybrid. Uh, and a question I get oftentimes is, like, what do I do? Can I still get referrals from other trainers if I have a gym?

Like, do you have any thoughts on that? Can you still navigate it? Is it about, again, effective communication, not stealing clients- Yeah ... keeping them as patients in that regard? What, what are your, some of your thoughts on that? Yeah. I th- I think the, the, um, the- To answer your question, it's always, and you know the answer, it's always a communication [00:35:00] piece- Yeah

beforehand, right? So the clinic-gym hybrid piece, uh, is probably most effective in a, in a particular area where there's access to gyms and conveniency of gyms is not very great. You know what I mean? So, like, having a car- like, your care and your gym in the same spot is, like, awesome. Yeah. If you're in a place like, let's say, Orange County or even Dallas, uh, like downtown- Or even where I'm at here in, in Boca.

Yeah, we got a ton of fitness studios Right. Like, that gets a little bit more hairier, uh, because you gotta look at it from the personal trainer's s- or the strength coach's side, right? They have a business, too, right? Yeah. Um, and at the end of the day, it's not about us trying to, uh... We're trying to help people.

Mm-hmm. You know, at the end of the day, that's what we need to do. So there needs to be clear communication with strength coaches and personal trainers who come in as, uh, who, you know, it's like, "Hey, I am not stealing your clients. What we want is we want your clients to [00:36:00] keep training, and I have patients come in, I want them to, uh, to exercise as well, right? Yep. If you see me, if you send me a patient or you send me one of your clients, they're training with you. Yep. They're training with you. And you are gonna run into the unfortunate scenario, the two where the, the, their client, now your patient's, gonna be like, "Well, why can't I just train here?"

You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And, and so that, that's a conversation you'll have to navigate with the- Yeah ... the patient, you know what I mean? But the... It can happen. I think you can, you can do it, just, like, you have to be very, you have to build a good relationship with a strength coach and a personal trainer.

Um, you know, so that... And you know, we had- It's kinda not the same, but it's almost kinda the same. Like, we did a lot of work with Equinox while we were in Southern California, and we'd have... Sometimes we would have, like, they would send us patients, uh, one of the trainers would send us patients, and then they would train, they would, like, switch trainers.

Yeah. And we'd know both of the trainers, so it was always like- Mm-hmm ... this kind of, like, weird, weird space thing there too. Yeah. So it was [00:37:00] always interesting to see, like, how some of those trainers navigated those things, too. Yeah. The great ones never got... They never got pissy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. The good trainers never, like, they never took it as a, as a dig, you know?

And just- Mm-hmm ... just what it is. It's what the person needed, and so they moved on, right? And then some of the, uh, the newer trainers who had, like, bigger egos, they had issues with it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And so you always have to, uh, you know, is it, put the ego aside. Yeah. Right? Um, yeah, that's, that's good.

It's always tricky. It's something I always ask people, and, and that was similar to me. I, I've, I've personally never wanted the gym model, not that I don't love it, and I think it's great, but for me- Yeah ... I just had too many trainers sending me, and I just- Yeah ... was like, "Ah, I don't wanna bite the hand that's feeding me there."

But, uh- Yeah ... last question is, uh, you know, obviously aside from your Parker duties and everything like that, and, uh, you and I got to officially kinda hang out and play golf at a, at a seminar, NPI, what do you got going on? Uh, you, you got any events coming up, any seminars? Uh, uh, I think you're, you're doing some stuff with, [00:38:00] uh, Ben Stevens, is that correct?

Yep. Yeah. Okay. So I got a couple things. . We got the big mastermind coming up with, uh, with Ben Stevens. Yeah. That's a, uh, it's a big one, uh, looking at, uh, next year. Yeah. Um, so that's gonna take up quite a bit of, uh, quite a bit of, uh, time and space with some of those online lectures, and then eventually the, uh, the in-person portion of that.

Uh- Mm-hmm ... that's huge, too. It's... I'm very, very, very humbled to be included in that, 'cause you look at the, the names on that- Yeah ... on that, so just kinda- It's kinda wild. Uh- It's a bunch of clinical experts and then my dumb ass. Yeah, well, it ... Again, it, it... I'm, I'm humbled to be on a list, you know, and seeing, like, your name on there and, and, and all the others, you know.

It just kinda, it just kinda blows me away a little bit. So, uh, very, very grateful to be included in that and, and, um... So have that. We have, uh, in a couple weeks we have, uh, Tennessee Chiropractic Association has their annual event, the Southern Chiropractic Association, so I'll be doing, uh, a couple hours there at their conference.

I got two [00:39:00] hours with the docs on Fridays, and I have six hours with s- the CTAs talking about exercise, you know- Yeah ... rehab, active care. And then we're doing, uh, my wife and I are doing, like, a... First time, we're doing, like, a co-seminar. Uh, so, like, we're both co, co-presenting a seminar. We're gonna be in, uh, St.

Louis, so we're doing one, uh, for, um, you know, uh, at a clinic in St. Louis. That's gonna be in October, I think. October? Mm-hmm. I should know the date of that probably. Yeah. That's gonna be October, I believe. Obviously we have Parker Seminars coming up as well. Uh- Yep ... I'll be doing, speaking there, uh, in October also.

And then, uh, yeah. Looking at, we got a couple things potentially lined up for next year as well, maybe something in Birmingham at Beau Beard's place. Um- Mm-hmm ... you know, um, haven't pulled the trigger on either low back or if it's gonna be j- actually coaching, like teaching how- Yeah ... like, act- how to coach exercise or, uh, or my, uh, knee.

I have a knee, uh, weekend knee seminar as well, so. Nice, man. That's exciting. Yeah. And so hopefully we can, uh, [00:40:00] cross paths here s- again soon. Yeah, yeah. It's gonna, you know, we need to make that happen. Yeah. No, definitely. Is there- You know, we need to play, we need to play golf with, I have my clubs instead of using, like, a smorgasbord of, uh, clubs there, and we need to get, uh, get your...

Did you get a new club yet? Uh- I, I did, yeah. So I, I, I wanna, I want to, you know, brag a little bit about how much of a physical specimen I am- Yeah, yeah ... and how strong I am, that I, I was hitting a four iron, and I didn't even stick it into the ground- Oh ... and I snapped the four iron. And this is new clubs, new Titleist clubs.

Yeah. Uh, snapped the four iron in half in my downswing. I mean, that's how much power I'm generating at 46 years old. I mean, you can... I was, like, kinda... I was sitting in the cart, and I can feel the ground reaction force that you were- Yeah ... you know, and into the, into the turf, right? It was just- Yeah ... it's wild.

You're right. You did not, you did not hit it, uh, too steep, right? Yeah. We can't give you the nickname of the Assad Father or [00:41:00] anything like that. So it's- It was a- it was a true, like, it was kinda crazy. It was, it was loud I, I did, I did bring it in to get, uh, I actually joined a, a local country club here, and they, they have a club repair and stuff, and I brought it in, and it w- and I'm new to the country club, and I was like, "I just want you guys to know I, I didn't do this in anger.

I didn't wrap this around the tree on the second hole or anything. This was, uh- Yeah ... this, uh, it, it just broke in my swing, so." Oh, that's great. But yeah, it is fixed. It is fixed, so. That's awesome. Um, where can our, uh, audience find out more? You got anywhere that you can send them where if they wanna get interested in some of these, uh, courses you got coming up?

Yeah. We d- I don't have any, uh, like a website or anything like that. Uh, we're, we're probably at we're, we're, we need to get something going with that. My, I have a Instagram. Uh, our old chiropractic practice, which we don't really post anything, was, uh, uh, Max Perform Chiro on Instagram. Mm-hmm. But so I created Fake Max Perform Chiro, and I've just kinda kept that.

So that's my handle on Instagram- Love it ... is Fake [00:42:00] Max Perform Chiro. I used to post- Love it ... satirical things on there, uh, but, uh, it's kind of molded into, like, now it's just pro- post-professional stuff on there too, so. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah- That's great ... any, any updates and, like, courses and stuff like that will be posted on there.

Uh, sometimes we'll loop, loop some things on Facebook as well. Uh, but no formal website with, like, things listed, which, uh, which is, you know, I know you can slap me on my hand later for that. Um- Yeah, we'll have a conversation later. Yeah, we'll get, we'll get that squared away. All right, Cody. This has been a pleasure, man, and we'll talk soon.

All right, thank you. Appreciate you.

I hope you enjoyed this week's episode, and if you wanna make the shift from busy, broke, and broken to time free and cash confident, or you just wanna continue with the exponential growth, check us out at modernchiropracticmarketing.com. Look at the MCM Mastery tab, watch the short video on there, and check out what we are doing now for evidence-informed chiropractors.

We are equal parts coaching and marketing done for you. Yes, you shoot some [00:43:00] videos. We help you with campaign strategies and ideas, and really become a thought leader in your community. You shoot those videos, you send them to us, we produce, edit, and brand them to you, then we distribute them through all of your channels.

We also take them and we turn it into one good blog per month, and every other month, we have Darcy Sullivan producing a robust blog with a topic that you pick from her database to help with your SEO. So we essentially become your content marketing agency to make sure your practice is always having ethical, elegant content marketing to help grow your practice.

On the coaching side, we also help you with everything from marketing ideas to business, communications, finances, anything practice growth, and really try to help prevent you from being stuck on that island, and we hold you accountable. We have a great group of doctors that are just doing amazing things, and we look forward to help you out to take that next step in your practice.

So again, check us out at modernchiropracticmarketing.com and learn [00:44:00] more.