EPISODE 481: The Practice Growth Journey with Audra Lance DC

Hey, chiropractors. We're ready for another Modern Chiropractic Mastery Show with Dr. Kevin Christie, where we discuss the latest in marketing strategies, contact marketing, direct response marketing, and business development with some of the leading experts in the industry.

Dr. Kevin Christie: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of Modern Chiropractic Mastery. Today, I'm excited to bring on Dr. Audra Lance to discuss quite a few things, but I, I wanted to have her on because, uh, she's someone that had-- I know has created a vision for herself and for her clinic and is getting there, and has gotten there in certain respects, and has done really remarkable things.

But I wanted to show everything from her journey, you know, the obstacles to get there. It's not easy. We talk about that and the struggle it takes, and, you know, whether you're a business owner or an associate or even a chiropractic student, some of the things you need to consider to really, you know, make this career worth doing.

It's not easy, but it's amazing when you put in the effort, and I wanted her to spotlight some of that. Uh, we talk about some of the things that she's done in the community and certain things she's doing with, um, pro athletes and also other entertainers. And then, uh, we get [00:01:00] really, uh, deep into the vision for what she has for the clinic and a rebrand that she's doing, and the team she's built, and, um, and her gratitude around the team members that are also helping build that clinic, and certain, uh, ideas around that.

But just wanted to spotlight a doc that is doing it right, um, is working hard. Uh, we talk about delayed gratification. We talk about leadership, what it looks like down the road v- when you do run a team. And, uh, we talk about a lot of different things that a chiropractor, um, who's really in the thick of growing and, and really maintaining, uh, the, uh, excitement around that.

And so I wanted to share her story and some of the advice that she has in, uh, this career we call chiropractic. So without further ado, here is my interview with Dr. Audra Lance

 All right. Welcome to the show, Audra. I really appreciate you hopping on here and kinda telling your story of, uh, your, [00:02:00] your journey of practice, graduating, and practice ownership, some of the cool things you've been doing and going on from there. But - before we dive into that, just, uh, introduce yourself and we'll go from there.

Audra Nance, DC: Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. , I practice in Nashville, Tennessee, a little south of there, specifically in Brentwood. , And we are a cash-based practice. I started that way, did the slow grow, slow burn, I guess. Mm-hmm. And we specialize in essentially high performers, so people that care about their health, who wanna invest in their health.

Um, and we are a clinic that spends time with people, either an hour or 30 minutes, um, DNS, ART, nerve flossing, all the things from around the world we put together, um, in a individualized plan depending on what's going on, whether that is an injury or a chronic pain case, or people coming in wanting performance.

Dr. Kevin Christie: When, when and where did you graduate from chiropractic school?

Audra Nance, DC: National, [00:03:00] in- All right ... 2013. Oh my God, I'm dating myself.

Dr. Kevin Christie: That's why I did it. No, I'm just kidding. Um, no, I just wanted to get a kind of lay of the land of, okay, you're about 12, 13, 13 years into it, and, um, you know, you've been doing a lot of good things to the point where I know I heard about what you were doing in that area some years ago, and it's been cool to see that.

Um, how many doctors now are part of your group in- including yourself?

Audra Nance, DC: Um, including myself, we have three on the team.

Dr. Kevin Christie: That's awesome. When did, what year did you hire your first doctor?

Audra Nance, DC: Oh, wow. Um- Put you on the spot.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Roughly, roughly ... I

Audra Nance, DC: think six years in, possibly. Okay. Yeah Around there. Six to seven.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, so let's go back.

You, uh, did you, uh, start as an associate anywhere? Did you open up right away?

Audra Nance, DC: No, I went... I was used to living on no food- ... and r- I was like, "You know what? If I'm gonna do this, and really- Yeah ... do it, let's try now." Um, so- Yeah ... I actually got on [00:04:00] care.com as I was driving to Nashville crying the whole time, um, and became a nanny w- while trying to go to 12 different banks that told me no- Yeah

um, and start the practice.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, that's why I, I wanted to have you on for a few reasons. Definitely I wanted to spotlight some of the stuff you're doing with the High Performers, 'cause that's cool and unique, and, and, and I think it's inspiring to hear. But, uh, just like you and I were pre-chatting a little bit before we hit record of, you know, how, how hard it is to build a practice, um, how challenging it is.

It's a... It becomes a different form of leadership to, to get there. There's a lot of sacrifice to, to get there. And, um, I think one of the things that I've harped on over the years was that oftentimes younger DCs will, uh, come to a practice that's well-established like yours and see it, and but they don't see what it, the behind the scenes, right?

Like, the fact that you were on care.com and weren't eating you know? And, uh, like, just the [00:05:00] sacrifices that it took to, to get there to, to make that happen, and I think that's something I'd... I, I like to hear it. I like to hear it. Mm-hmm. You know? Like, um, what would you say, roughly, how many years before you felt like, uh, you could get off care.com-

you could go to a, a d- a steak dinner restaurant? Like- Yeah ... what was it roughly when you said to yourself, "Okay, you know what? This was worth the sacrifice. There's still a lot more to go, but I feel like, yeah, this, we're getting there." Like, how, how many years in was it roughly?

Audra Nance, DC: Uh, where I wasn't white-knuckling the steering wheel- Yeah, yeah

probably five. Five, right? A good five. And that- Yeah ... I mean, s- I, I don't... Like, I still don't know what a 40-hour workweek is. That seems light. Um- So it's just a lot.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, it is, and I, and I think, uh, and you're willing, you've been willing to do a lot, which I think is a testament to, yeah, obviously your work ethic and everything and then the results that you've, uh, [00:06:00] gotten from there.

Um, what were some of the things when you started out? 'Cause I also like to hear, I like for chiropractors to hear that journey early on. Um, what was it like? How did you build the practice? Were you getting out in the community? Were you creating content? 'Cause you, you do a lot of cool stuff now, but what did it look like back then to, to really get it growing?

Audra Nance, DC: Uh, well, back in the day, the social media wasn't as big of a thing as it is now. Um, so I am really grateful for all the mentors that I had and people willing to talk with me and coach with me, and I in school went and shadowed so many people and made those relationships, and I feel like any clinic I shadowed, whether it was aligned with how I wanted to practice or not, I learned something, whether that was how they talked to the patient, how they talked to their team, maybe the routine that they had.

There was always some pertinent takeaway that I was like, "That's really cool. How could I apply that in my instance?" [00:07:00] So I feel like that was one key thing that, you know, I was able to have these relationships with these practicing doctors, and even in other specialties, you know, and ask them questions, um, and them give me, which I call some of my talks I do now, reality checks.

Mm-hmm. 'Cause I feel like in school sometimes you're pumped up, which you need that- But you get out there and you're like, "Oh, wow, that's not the reality." And I was glad that I had, like, this is gonna be really hard, and you're gonna really have to lock in, um, going into it. So I- my first patient came from the ART website.

Um- There we go ... and he still signs his emails, "Your first patient." So having that full body certification, and I think- Yeah ... I had a couple more than that at that time, so that, when people asked what, how did you get your first person to walk in? But then from there it was really building relationships in the community- Mm-hmm

of, um, I did the networking group things, 'cause they usually had free dinner or coffee and breakfast. So, um- So you could eat. You could eat. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. [00:08:00] But then just, like, being there, you know, I learned about how many careers and businesses there are out there that I didn't even know. Mm-hmm. And it was me being more interested, not necessarily like, "Oh, I, here, here's my name.

Here's my patients." It was just building authentic relationships. And I moved to a town I didn't know anyone to, so I'm also trying to make friends. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, so it was just a lot of getting out there and getting a lot of nos, getting a lot of- Yeah ... I don't even know if that was worth my time, but doing it anyways.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, I, that's the thing is sometimes it- it's not worth doing it, but it is worth doing it, right? Mm-hmm. Like, yeah, that one particular instance didn't work, but the summation of all of it, right?

Audra Nance, DC: Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. I tell a funny story 'cause I used to go to a lot of the networking. We, down here in Florida, we have a lot of personal injury stuff, and- Mm-hmm

these MRI centers would put together these, uh, nice, uh, you know, doctor, attorney networking dinners and drinks and all that, and they would do it at great places. So I would go. I'd love it. And I would run into this guy, I [00:09:00] was probably 28, and I couldn't get into, um, Aetna. I was trying to get into Aetna. I got into the other insurance.

I couldn't get into Aetna. Tried. It was closed. Well, I kept on running into this guy who was, like, 50, and he was at the networking events, and we'd run into each other. And finally, like, the third time, he was a fun guy, and- and I was just talking about what he did, and he happened to be vice president of Aetna in South Florida, right?

Of course. And I'm like, "How you get in?" I was like- I was like, "I can't get into Aetna." I was like, "I've been trying so hard." He's like, "Oh, call..." He, he, he gives me his number. He's like, "Call me on Monday. I'll get you in." So sure enough, I call him Within three weeks I'm in network with Aetna, right? And, and I was, ended up being in network for a while with Aetna un- until I dropped the insurances.

But it's just a, an example of like when you get out there and you do these things and you meet people, there's these strategic byproducts that happen. It's not always that transactional, like, "Okay, yeah, I met you, you met me, you send me business, I send you business." No. Right? [00:10:00] Uh, it's just building this r- relationship, um, apparatus in the, in the community, and you don't know what you're gonna get out of it, right?

You might get a- Mm ... a, a round of golf with someone at a cool country club, and then all of a sudden you meet someone there, and then that person, that golf pro becomes a, a patient, then referrals, right? Yeah. So it's just getting out there. Was that basically a lot of what you were doing?

Audra Nance, DC: Yeah. And then, um, just when people did come in, whether it was the one person a week, like I was locked in, like treating them, being present the best I could.

'Cause that, showing off doing what I knew how to do was the best way to create referrals, is to have them talking about it.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, absolutely. You gotta have that, uh, that experience, that patient experience to be, uh, unique, right? Mm-hmm. And, and for them to, to remark on it, which makes it remarkable.

Mm-hmm. And, uh, I don't wanna, I don't wanna necessarily dive into all like the specific details of particular people and stuff that you work with, but, um, how, how did [00:11:00] it, how did you kinda get your break working with, uh, I... Was it pro athletes first or was it entertainment, uh, first, or both? Where- Both. Yeah.

Kinda both. What was kinda the first, the, the tipping point there where it happened? Obviously you're in a, an area that is, um, chock full of, of folks that are of well-known, uh, names. But like just how did that happen?

Audra Nance, DC: Word of mouth referrals- Yeah. Um, initially, and then from there they just, like, talk to their teammates or their band or, you know.

There's so many different careers within the entertainment or industry too. Yeah. Um, so r- really it was that. And, you know, to focus on the professional sports side- Mm-hmm ... um, a little bit, that's a little harder than people think of maintaining, 'cause they get traded, their contracts are up. Yeah. They're in off-season, on-season, they're moving.

Like, a consistent thing of that is very difficult to build. Yeah, yeah. Um, and just- And, and it's- ... knowing that going in, it shouldn't be your only thing. [00:12:00]

Dr. Kevin Christie: Uh, hu- hey, I'm glad you brought that up- ... because, um, yeah, I mean, 'cause, like, it's, it's 2026 right now and, um, I, I, I rarely, I don't have hardly any pro athletes in my practice.

Mm-hmm. A couple that are retired that come in, 'cause I moved up to Boca Raton. But when I was down in- Yeah ... closer to Miami, I mean, I, we, I worked the NFL Combine for 12 years. Mm-hmm. Had a bunch. And, and to your point, yeah, like circumstances can change or players can change and, and if you hang your hat only on that, then it, it, it could be tricky.

But obviously, um, it can be a great thing for, for many reasons, uh, for sure. Mm-hmm. What would be, if someone... I just would like one tidbit of advice. If someone does get an opportunity to work someone of some recognition, uh, what are some things you've learned to kind of, you know, navigate that professionally and, and, and, and really be of value to that, that particular person?

Audra Nance, DC: Um, well, something that serves me just naturally, I feel like very well, is I don't know who people are. Like- ... [00:13:00] I am just, I'm not into pop culture, I'm not in- Yeah ... so like I really go in, like you're just a person. Like I don't really- Yeah ... get starstruck. Mm-hmm. And they can feel that right away. Yeah. Um, they are just people who- Yeah

you know, put one f- however they get dressed, they put a pant leg in just like you and I, and they poop too, or they should be pooping. Yeah. We need to talk about that- Yes ... if they're not. And, like treating them like that- Yeah ... um, I think is one of the biggest things that you can v- they value. Um, and then their schedules need a lot of flexibility.

Um, and it's not, you know, people get annoyed of like, "Oh, their schedule changes." Well, their coaches change things, the planes- Mm-hmm ... change. Like, you're gonna have to work late nights, um, and weekends, and- Yeah ... that's just how it is.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. You gotta be flexible, for sure. Mm-hmm. But yeah, to your point, I, I learned a lesson when I was a teenager.

My grandfather had an opportunity to go fishing with a few other guys, with Jack Nicklaus, the golfer.

Audra Nance, DC: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kevin Christie: And he was telling a story where they got on the boat, and Jack was [00:14:00] like very nice and cordial and introduced himself, and he said, "We can talk about fishing, we can talk about the... We can talk about anything.

I don't wanna talk about golf." Yeah. And he said it in a nice way. Right. It wasn't like being rude.

Audra Nance, DC: Mm-hmm. But

Dr. Kevin Christie: it was just like he just wanted to be a regular guy. Like he just- Mm-hmm ... wanted to talk about fishing or whatever. Mm-hmm. Didn't want to be asked about the Masters. And I remember when I, I kinda took that to heart, where when I started working with certain people, it was like, you know, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna ask him about football and like, "Oh, what was your favorite play- Mm-hmm

that you've ever..." You know, like 'cause some people- Mm-hmm ... I'd get in these situations, they'd start grilling them on this stuff. Mm-hmm. And so I would try to find a, a thread, right? Of like- Mm-hmm ... whatever it is that's completely off the topic of- Mm-hmm ... sport or music or whatever, and I, and I found that's a, a strategy to at least start to connect with them differently.

Mm-hmm. And you gotta obviously respect the certain barriers, for sure. Right.

Audra Nance, DC: And I, I'm sure you've found this too, but their schedules are busy and packed, so whatever time they have with you, [00:15:00] like that is also their time to recover and like- Mm-hmm ... decompress. And so sometimes- Yeah ... silence is fine. Like- Yeah, yeah

just, you know, just- Ah, yeah ... kind of feeling that out, reading that out- Yeah ... of like, okay, maybe they're stressed, they had a bad practice, bad game, whatever it is. Yeah. Just like give them a second, you do your thing, and go from there.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. That's, that's great. So, um, let's transition a little bit. I wanna, um, talk about your, you are cash-based practice, and um, you've been that way from the beginning.

Is that accurate? Mm-hmm. Uh, what have you found that... 'Cause that can always be challenging to grow and scale. Um, what have been some of the strategies around that to where you've, uh... Or maybe even there's been hurdles. Um, but what, what have, you know, there's a lot of young chiropractors out there that, that think it's the holy grail to go cash.

Mm-hmm. And I think in a lot of ways it can really reduce a lot of headaches, but can be challenging as well. Mm-hmm. Uh, what have you found for you to, that's helped out with being cash, being able to hire multiple [00:16:00] doctors, have a team around you, grow a practice from there? Uh, just any words of wisdom that, that- Mm

someone could gain.

Audra Nance, DC: Um, and this was passed along to me and it ended up being true of just like, listen, going cash can be great, um, but just realize it's gonna be a lot slower than if you take insurance. Mm-hmm. And that is so true. It's like- Yeah ... the low and slow, starting the fire. Um, because it is, like you are shrinking your database of people who can come in.

Um, I don't know insurance to like know the trade-offs. Um, I just- Mm-hmm. The cash thing for me, it's just I didn't have to hire someone to just fight with insurance. Um, and we do provide super bills and all that, which is a challenge in itself to like- Mm-hmm ... what, what's the insurance company reimbursing for?

What is it not? Yeah. Um, and trying to support our patients in that way. But, um, I think that when people like pay, they, there's a different kind of like energy exchange of investment, of value. Um- Mm-hmm ... okay. And they're not [00:17:00] paying... For me and what I, how I practice, I can't do the 10-minute thing. Like they are paying for an hour or 30 minutes of time- Mm-hmm

with just the doctor, and I feel like that holds a lot of value. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and then like- Where people feel like it's worth it.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, and then like you mentioned, kinda like the slow burn to it, and I think that's, um, typically because it takes time to position yourself as a, as an expert, right? Mm-hmm. Like you, you do have to be positioned in a certain way to where enough people are willing to pay, uh, that money for it.

And, and obviously as you can increase your cash rates and go there, um, I think some people get discouraged because, um, they, they haven't yet positioned themselves an expert. They haven't done enough to get there yet. Sometimes just a matter of time, that's why it can be a slow burn to get there versus, uh, go opening up in network, it can happen quite a bit quicker.

And then you could choose to get rid of some insurance as you go along. That's kinda how, how I did it, but- Mm-hmm ... um, I just think that- What you did was obviously hustle and get out there and [00:18:00] do that, but really did a good job of positioning yourself as an expert. Because you, you brought the goods as well.

Like, you can't just say, "I'm gonna position myself as an expert," 'cause this is the other mistake I see people make is they, they, they put lipstick on a pig, right? Mm-hmm. Like, I'm, I'm gonna position myself as an expert. I'm gonna do social media. I'm gonna get out in the community. Mm-hmm. But then clinically they're just not there, so that when that person does come and exchange that money for the service, it was like, "Oh, well, he was nice, but that really wasn't effective.

Like, I'm not gonna pay $100 every time I come in for that," right? Yeah. Um, and so you, you gotta bring both things.

Audra Nance, DC: Yeah, and I think that's a great point, and I think that is something that people miss, um, 'cause they're so excited. I don't care whether you're starting your own or whether you're an associate, whatever path you may choose.

Like, when you get out of school, you're still not good. I'm sorry. Like- It's true ... and there's a lot of learning, and, like, my thing, the reality check, I'm pretty honest. Um- Yeah ... like even me, I failed, and I still fail. Um- Mm-hmm ... [00:19:00] there's a lot of growth even years beyond, no matter how long you've been in practice, and you have to know that going in.

And especially fir- at first, you're gonna mismanage cases even though you think you're not going to. Yeah. Um, and you're gonna make those mistakes. And, um- Mm ... just accepting that and being excited and ready for that growth and, like, that gratitude of people even coming in and that you get the opportunity to self-reflect and be like, "What can I do to be better?"

is something that I think we should normalize a little bit more. Um- Yeah ... it's not jumping out, "Oh my God, did you know I was president of this club?" No patient cares. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, it's still you haven't had, like, the hands-on management case experience as you do in practice, and that's, like, really hard for the first three to five years.

Um- Yep ... meanwhile, you, like, want your books to be full, but- Mm-hmm ... you still have a lot of learning to do.

Dr. Kevin Christie: You do, and I think it even... You know, we can even bring it back to, like, when you are... You kinda mentioned it earlier, but when you're a, let's call it a late-term chiropractic [00:20:00] student, you need to be doing things then-

Audra Nance, DC: Mm-hmm

Dr. Kevin Christie: to help. And you were doing a lot of shadowing clinics, and, and I think that's huge. Like, if you're kind of late DC, uh, DC program, you haven't graduated yet, you need to be getting out there and learning and a s- and, and positioning yourself as a student, and, and really learn from other experts. Go to different seminars.

Get really good- Mm-hmm ... clinically so that you can at least shorten the window, right? Like, it's this, it's this blend of having delayed gratification on one hand, but then trying to shorten that- Mm-hmm ... delay as much as- Yeah ... you can. It's gonna be there, but we don't want it to be a 20-year thing, right? Right.

How about a five- Yeah ... to seven-year thing? Yeah. And it starts as a student.

Audra Nance, DC: Yeah, and I would say that's great advice, too, of, like, what you said of if you do wanna associate, like, start that process early. Like- Yeah ... when you're sending out a thing, "I'm graduating next week and I need a job," that's just a, that makes me as a business owner, "What?"

Like- Yep ... w- do we... Where is your time management and self-organization?

Dr. Kevin Christie: [00:21:00] Mm-hmm. It, it, it's tr- it's so true. Like, I've, I've, uh, over 21 years, I've had some where I'm like, wow, that person, you know, is really on the ball. Like, they're tri-7- Mm-hmm ... or whatever- Mm-hmm ... and they already have met all these other chiropractors that I know of, and they've shadowed with them, and they, they've learned from them.

It's like, okay, this person is, is taking this serious.

Audra Nance, DC: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Um, and then okay, now we can fast-forward and, and they've graduated and, and let's just say they've taken an associate role. I think one of the things that I wish more associates, uh, early on would take serious is the fact that- You gotta kinda put a, I would imagine or I would recommend, you gotta put in that same level of, like, as an associate as if you were opening your own, right?

It's like they wait to say, "I'm just gonna wait till I open my own." I was like, well, now you're gonna, you're gonna try to open up a business and the first time is, uh, you're gonna do any of these things is then when you coulda done it as an [00:22:00] associate? I think you gotta go all in as an associate because one of two things is gonna happen.

If you go all in and you do exactly what you did to start your practice, Audra, and you, you get out there and you hit it hard, you're gonna build a great book of business within the walls of a, of a great practice, and you could be there forever and ha- make great money and have great career satisfaction, have all these opportunities, and that's amazing.

Uh, or if, you know, three to five years in you wanna g- you know, spread your wings and move somewhere- Mm ... and open up a practice, at least you've, this isn't the first time you're, you're doing it, right? Mm-hmm. So-

Audra Nance, DC: Yeah, and I would say, like, if especially if it's a practice you really love and see yourself at, like if my practice existed, I would rather associate.

You can make way more- Yeah ... money a lot of times and way less stress. Um- Yeah ... the, where there's already a stage built for you, and you just have to like, you know, do your work to be- Yeah ... on that stage- Yeah ... where you don't have to build the stage from the get-go.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. I'm, I'm seeing so many more [00:23:00] scenarios like you just mentioned now where there is an existing practice that a ton, a ton, a ton of work was put in that the, uh, that people forget about and don't see, right?

Mm-hmm. Um, they don't see the first few years. They see the 10th year, the 15th year.

Audra Nance, DC: Yep.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Um, and so you got this great situation, and you can build within that. And I think we're, I'm definitely seeing that more, which is, which is great, and I think, uh, providing... I actually just wrote a, a blog article for ChiroUp, and um, it was about bridging the associate/owner kinda gap that's happening there.

I read that.

Audra Nance, DC: Oh, good.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Good. Yeah. Mm. And because it's been something that I've, I, I've, you know, I've lived it. I've been an associate. Mm. I've had quite a few associates. I've talked obviously to a lot of chiropractors and, and I think there can be a middle ground there, and I think providing, uh, clarity of path is, is helpful- Mm-hmm

in realizing. And one of the things that- I've come to realize, and I did do this with my [00:24:00] last doc, is it's good to actually share the origin story of the practice- Mm-hmm ... with the team, right? So they say, "Yeah, this is..." You don't have to tell them you were eating ramen noodles and- Yeah ... and things like that, and, and make it this, like, pity party, but just say, "Hey, look, you know, we started out and we had 7,000 square- or 700 square feet, and we, uh, we were seeing 20 patients a week for the first year."

Like, just, uh, a- and then just, like, give them where it came from so that- Mm-hmm ... way they see, it's like, okay, yeah, like, this took a lot of work to, to do it. Mm-hmm.

Audra Nance, DC: Yeah, and I'm grateful I've had the opportunity... I don't know if you know this, we've- I've totally rebranded the business, um- Oh, real- ... and everything.

So- Tell us ... so it was Spine & Sport Rehabilitation Institute. Yep. It is now Lumara Concierge, um- Mm-hmm ... Your Body Elevated. And we- Nice ... are hopefully moving spaces, so we kinda- Yeah ... have gone through this whole, like, new era, as Taylor Swift would say, um- Yeah ... uh, so that we can launch and everyone [00:25:00] can, like, grow with it.

Isn't, you know- Yeah ... just me of Spine & Sport, um- Yeah ... it's everyone in this new name.

Dr. Kevin Christie: That's awesome, and I w- I wanna touch on that for a second, then I wanna, I want you to share your vision of this. Um-

Audra Nance, DC: Mm-hmm ...

Dr. Kevin Christie: anybody out there that's listening, if you feel like you need a rebrand, you're concerned about a rebrand, you know, it's usually, like, 9 times out of 10 well worth it.

Mm-hmm. It's... Yeah, there's- it's not easy. You gotta do this, you gotta do that, whatever. It's a lot of work.

Audra Nance, DC: It's a lot of work. It's- it was eight months of work. Yeah, it's

Dr. Kevin Christie: a lot of work. You know? We've- we rebranded MCM and, um, over the time and this and that, but, uh, like, I just, I made one switch 'cause we were Modern Chiropractic Marketing as a company- Mm-hmm

for a while, and the- Mm-hmm ... podcast was Modern Chiropractic Mastery. Um, now the company is Modern Chiropractic Mastery, but I had to spend, like, $4,000 on trademarks to do it, so- Oh ... it's not, it's not fun, but it's- No ... usually worth it. Like, it usually is worth it, 'cause you know in your heart of hearts you're growing [00:26:00] from what it was to what your vision is, and if you got to, you gotta do it oftentimes.

So I'm, I'm, I'm excited that you did that, so share with us what the, what the vision is. I, I'd love to hear this.

Audra Nance, DC: Well, I had a feeling. I was just like, well, first of all, Rhine's Spine and Sport Rehabilitation Institute, what a nightmare. And like- ... but the email was like drlance@spinesportrehabilitation.com. I mean, what a pain, and that has been like that.

But, um, I also got a huge business audit done, and they had said, "You need to trademark your name." Like- Yeah ... where you're at in business and everything, and of course, Spine and Sport, there's so many of those. Um- Yeah ... there was no way that was gonna go through. So it was kind of, you know, my gut knew it, and then I got confirmation, 'cause I'm always worried that I'm gonna go to jail for something I don't even know about, um-

through the audit. Um, and so I- it gave us the chance, and I was asking patients, you know- Mm-hmm ... how do you feel when you leave here? What do you think about this place? You know, just all [00:27:00] these probing questions for months and multiple different people. And things that ca- kept coming back was, um, "I feel so much lighter when I leave.

You're such a light. The team is such a light." Like, I just- I'm drawn to this place. I feel- Mm-hmm ... so much better. So but- w- you know, did a lot of research and everything, and one of my patients actually came to me, and they're like, "We got it." And I'm like, "What?" And they're like, "Lumara." And I was like, "What?" And they're like, "It's Latin roots" Mm-hmm

which is, you know, the book of medicine. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, so lu means to illuminate, to make lighter. Mm-hmm ... and it also is gracefully, and then ara is the root word for body. Oh. And I was like, "That's it?" It just- Yeah ... and it w- we could go through the trademark. It passed that test. There you go. And, um, concierge, we just, like I said earlier, you know, you're either with us for an hour or 30 minutes just with the doctor.

Um, and that is just, like, a very concierge medicine practice. Mm-hmm. And we try to go above and beyond to accommodate you and your schedule- Yeah ... in whatever way we can.

Dr. Kevin Christie: That's great, [00:28:00] and, like- Mm-hmm ... really clear on what your niche is. Um, actually have, uh, Lindsay Mumma coming to speak to our- Yeah ... West Mastermind group in Santa Fe in a month, and she's talking about that 'cause obviously she's done such a great job of she is who she is, and her practice reflects that, and- Mm-hmm

you know, you know exactly what, um, you're getting when you go there, and it's such a unique experience. Mm-hmm. Um, and I, I love when chiropractors like yourself just really hone in on that-

Audra Nance, DC: Mm-hmm ...

Dr. Kevin Christie: and, and, and, um, really, like, double down on it because it, it's so good, and it really helps you separate yourself, especially 'cause you're in an area that's got a lot of chiropractors, a lot of people.

It's very competitive, and you, you gotta do, uh, you gotta do what you can to, um, really reflect what you are as a clinic, as a chiropractor, and who your audience is. So congratulations- Yeah ... on that.

Audra Nance, DC: Thank you. It's really exciting. That's- It just feels so, like, much more me, much more us, and much more, more importantly, our [00:29:00] patients.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. No, absolutely. Mm-hmm. And then, um, is there any thoughts on where to take that, uh, whether it's, I know obviously a new space, so tell me about the new space. Mm-hmm.

Audra Nance, DC: Oh, what a nightmare. Oh, the joys. Yeah. Um, yeah. So we, we... I always say to the client, with our whole experience, we're the Chanel of the business.

We're very white glove service- Mm-hmm ... touchpoints. Um- So w- and space that aligns with that. Um, I'm not exactly sure how everything's looking yet, you know. We're still in the permitting phase- Yep ... which I thought we would be well beyond by now. So- Mm-hmm ... we're still in those drawings and, you know, with the architects and everything, um, where we're going from here, but I will keep you updated and I'm very excited.

Dr. Kevin Christie: That's, that's perfect. One of the things that I've noticed from this conversation is, uh, I was in my strategic coach meeting last month, and one guy was speaking, and he was talking about how his brother is, like, so much smarter than him and more capable and all this. But [00:30:00] this guy talking is a very successful entrepreneur, and his brother, great guy, but he's just kind of been a job guy.

N- nothing wrong with that, right? He just... But he was, like, talking to his wife. He's like, "I don't understand why my brother won't, like, start this business, 'cause he keeps on talking about it, but he won't do it." And the guy's wife was like, "Well, uh, you have the willingness to suffer, and, uh- Mm ... your brother, and your brother doesn't."

And I, I was like, well, that's, that's what entrepreneurship is, right? That's what- Yeah ... starting a business. And frankly, just even being a, a, a chiropractor of any ilk, like, just- Yeah ... being a doctor, going through eight years of school- Yeah ... dealing with patients, dealing with failure of patients, like, it's just the, y- how much suffering can you take?

And, and, uh, those are the ones where when I notice they can... They know, they know they're gonna suffer, but they know on the other end if it's better and they do it anyway, those are the ones that usually, uh, really reach their vision. So I commend you on your willingness to suffer. Well, thank

Audra Nance, DC: you. And I think it's, like, kinda be excited about it and [00:31:00] what you're gonna learn- Yeah

about yourself and how you're gonna grow. Of like- Mm-hmm ... okay, I know this is gonna suck, but, like, like you said at the end, but, like, that whole process of who it's gonna make me as a- Yeah ... better person and, like, love something about myself more and be able to- Mm-hmm ... serve my patients or connect with them better through this experience- Mm-hmm

um, is kind of the exciting and addicting part for me.

Dr. Kevin Christie: It is. Uh, in a, in a masochistic way, for sure, right? Yeah. Uh- Yeah ... well, that's cool. That's exciting. And so, um, yeah, the building stuff, the, the, the new space is always a challenge. I, I've, uh, coached a handful of people through that, actually quite a few.

And I always say- Mm-hmm ... you know, it's gonna suck. There's gonna be a lot of obstacles, but it's always worth it. Mm-hmm. It's always worth it, and you just gotta- Mm-hmm ... kinda get through it. So...

Audra Nance, DC: Yeah. And that next leap of faith, the bigger space and, like, putting more money in, it's scary 'cause you're like, "Okay."

Mm-hmm. "Where's this money gonna come from?" But, like, you know- Yeah ... you have to have that faith.

Dr. Kevin Christie: You do, you do. And you know, you and I were kinda chatting, [00:32:00] you just mentioned kinda reinvesting money into the space and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. And you know, it's, um, I, I kinda referenced when we were, before we hit record, Greg Crabtree talks about, like, what do you do with profit, you know?

Mm. Obviously we're, in chiropractic we're working on thinner margins than if you're a plastic surgeon or, or a brain surgeon, right? Or- Right, huge. You know. Yeah. Or, or a hedge fund manager. Like, we're working on smaller margins and, and we gotta be smart with the profit that we do have. And he always has that recommendation, like, if you got profit, you still, you know, you gotta pay the tax, so you got tax on profit.

Let's call it a third of that. And then he recommends a third to take as an owner's distribution, you know, rewarding yourself for building a profitable business. And then he has that other third is reinvesting into the business. And I think that's always important to be willing to reinvest in the business, not only for yourself, but for your patients, right?

Mm. They're gonna have a better space and experience. But [00:33:00] also your team- Mm-hmm ... your other team members, your other doctors. Uh, it gives them the ability to, um, grow more and obviously have a better space and better, uh, branding and, and, and ba- better patient experience. So all that helps them grow and, and I think that's a, a level of leadership that- is hard, right?

It's, it's hard to, to take profit and, and not go and, and waste it. You know, like, 'cause it get... Like, it could be nice. You could, you know, go and buy whatever. Like, it could be nice stuff and you can go do that. But being able to take that and reinvest it in your business and the rebrand that you're doing, 'cause I know that doesn't come cheap.

But you're, you're reinvesting in everybody, you, your patients, your team, and that's a level of sacrifice and delayed gratification, kinda like going back to, uh, you know, early starts with it, and it's, it's cool to see you do that.

Audra Nance, DC: No. Well, thank you. Yeah. And I spend a lot reinvesting back in [00:34:00] the business, and like you said, the team is very important to me, too.

Um, I've been able to offer health benefits and matching 401- Oh ... which is really hard in our industry. Very hard. Um, but very costly, um, because l- and I, I didn't even fully realize this until I did it. I mean, you have the cost of opening it- Yeah ... then the cost of paying for it, but then there's taxes on top of that- Yeah

for that, and it's just like, oh wow, we're... You know? Yeah, yeah. But like you said, you're kinda just like, "Okay, this is what I would want if I work somewhere." Um- Yeah ... and just trying to, like, love on your team and set them up for success as best as you can- Mm-hmm ... um, even though, like, every individual has to w- do their own work.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, yeah. I mean, the 401, when I remember when I, uh, I, I think implemented it five years ago for the clinic. Mm-hmm. I, I definitely dragged my feet for a while, and I, I was like, okay, you know, the guy was going over the match. It's like, okay, that's fine. I can do that. And then I re- then I didn't realize there's also the management fee every year.

Yep. Oh yeah, that too. And I was like, it's like, oh, you got me there too. Ooh. But it's been neat [00:35:00] because I have, uh, someone that's been working for me, and she's, um, not a doctor, but she's been working for me for almost, like, since the beginning of the 401and-

Audra Nance, DC: Aw ... I

Dr. Kevin Christie: remember last year I showed her, I was like, "Look, this is how much is in there now," and she's like, "Oh, wow."

Like, she kind of hadn't been keeping up with it other than- Yeah ... contributing, and I match, and doing all that, and- Yeah ... and it's been a ni- it's, like, a nice chunk of change in there now, and like something that- Yeah ... uh, she was really very happy about. And, uh, so cool, I'm glad you added that, and the, and the health insurance.

That's a whole other animal that- Mm-hmm ... uh, makes my knees weak to talk about. I know.

Audra Nance, DC: Yeah, because it's funny, 'cause we're a cash-based business, so I'm like- Yeah ... I don't... Like, but...

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. Yeah.

Audra Nance, DC: Gotta do it. But, um, so but reinvesting in your business, you can't expect it to grow if you don't- Mm-hmm ... like, you know, take the first step yourself.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, yeah. And having a framework for reinvesting in it, which is, which is great. Mm-hmm. It's, it's the, it's kind of the vision meet to, meets the financials of it. Mm-hmm. And if you get those two things right, it's fun. You know, you're building something. Mm-hmm. And then ultimately what [00:36:00] you're doing well too that I like is you're building something that is scalable, and then down the road at some point it's sellable, and it becomes an asset.

And what's cool about doing that now, even if you're not planning on selling it for 30 years, is if you make it sellable now, it usually means that it's running very efficiently and good. And so you might as well do it now, because that way it becomes more profitable while you own it, and then, yeah, you have an asset at the end.

There's nothing worse than going to retire and you just don't have anything to sell.

Audra Nance, DC: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So. Um, and that's been... And it's been the past couple years of me just even learning about that, 'cause it is hard, 'cause we are humans. Your business is human. It's not like a tech product you can sell- Yeah ... or rely on.

And a lot of it with doctors, it fully relies on us. Yeah, yep. Um, and that can be good and bad. Um, but, like, especially down the line. Yeah. And I, once again, I love that you're talking about all that because, like, in school, like I said, I've just learned about it a couple years ago. Mm-hmm. [00:37:00] Yeah. Um, of all of that.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. It's, it's a learning process. I mean, I'm, I'm still learning.

Audra Nance, DC: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kevin Christie: And learning all the mistakes that I made in the past, but that's, uh, that's part of growth. Kind of like you mentioned earlier with, uh, clinical care, right? Mm-hmm. You learn from making mistakes and not getting results or missing that, that, that cause of what that actually was going on and, uh, you know, it's, uh, part of the process,

Audra Nance, DC: so.

Yeah. So what's your big vision for the podcast?

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, so we just, we are in our ninth year. Haven't missed a week. Uh, we release every week, and that's been cool. Uh, I would say the podcast is my... I love doing it, and it, it's, it's cool 'cause I, uh, you know, I started the podcast and I didn't have a business around it.

Just for two years I didn't monetize it. Mm-hmm. Just was free content, and then wrapped a business around it now, Modern Chiropractic Mastery, and we've grown substantially with our coaching groups and our mastermind, and we do, you know, one-off things here and there. And I think, you know, our, our big, hairy, uh, audacious goal [00:38:00] honestly is just to get, uh, evidence-based chiropractors, like, really good at business.

And what good at business is, I, I heard someone say this some years ago is just, is just offering the best patient experience, right? Yep. Yep. And that's what it boils down to. Mm-hmm. And then you can reverse engineer what it takes to do that, right? Because i- and I'll just give one example of where the patient experience can get chipped away at if, if you're not, uh, careful is if you're struggling in business, you then go into that patient encounter financially worried and concerned and, "How am I gonna hit payroll?"

And of course that's gonna impact your patient experience and your connection with that patient in the room. Or even worse is if you start making clinical decisions only based on the money, right? Mm-hmm. And so that's, you know, my goal is to just get chiropractors thriving in whatever that looks like.

There's not one [00:39:00] answer to that. Uh, that's why I like to have people like you on to come- Mm-hmm ... and share the vision- Mm-hmm ... of where you're, where you're going, what it took to get there, because it has different paths. It's r- it's rarely easy. Yeah. Um, and, and I want really good clinicians to start getting really good business, uh- Mm-hmm

strategy, and then you have fun with it. And, you know, when you get to your mid-40s like me, maybe- Mm-hmm ... you finally feel comfortable with your life- Mm-hmm ... financially and Exactly ... and do it well, right? Like- Exactly. I

Audra Nance, DC: love that. And I 100% agree with you, because you have to love this 'cause of the patients and why you got into it- Yeah

or you'll never succeed. Like, if you don't fully... And I know I had friends from school, they've gotten out of it because- Yep ... it, it has to be about the client and the patient- Mm-hmm ... every single day.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yep, it does. And you did that, and then it's okay to marry on to that good business strategy, right? Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah.

It's... There's nothing wrong with that. Like, there's good business strategy, and we're not talking about being a, like a, a [00:40:00] snake or a shark, like where you're- No ... just, like, taking advantage of people and you're whatever. But it's just like you can be patient-centered and really damn good at business, and there's nothing- Yeah

wrong with that.

Audra Nance, DC: Mm-hmm. So. No, I love that. And what's your best business advice? 'Cause I feel like the more the better- Yeah ... that you, like- Mm-hmm ... wish you would've known 21 years ago.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, I would say my best business advice is, uh, I guess, you know, to first have a mindset that I'm gonna get really good at business.

So like, like, okay, I'm gonna become a good businessperson. Mm-hmm. And the way I will, will frame it a lot of times is, is from a book that I can never remember, which, you know, I, I reference this book so many times you would think I would remember it, but he talks about skill stacking. And I really love that idea.

Like, okay- Yep ... we can skill stack clinically, okay? So we could, you know, get good with soft tissue, get good with adjustment, get good with rehab. Mm-hmm. That, that's skill stacking, which then- Mm-hmm ... produces one product, which is great. But it's the same thing as like, I wanna take a good clinician, and I wanna stack a skill of communication.

Like, let's get you good at [00:41:00] communicating. Okay. Mm-hmm. And then let's stack a skill of understanding money. Okay, great. Mm. Let's get a m- marketing skill stack. Let's get a-

Audra Nance, DC: Mm-hmm ...

Dr. Kevin Christie: um, you know, a leadership skill. Like, let's, let's keep on stacking that, so now- Mm-hmm ... Audra becomes this powerhouse of like, yeah, she's really good clinically, but also can communicate well to patients and team, and can reinvest money because there's, there's financial wherewithal there.

So-

Audra Nance, DC: Mm-hmm ...

Dr. Kevin Christie: I would start looking at the stack, right? Like, how do I... What's the next thing I gotta do? Okay, I feel good clinically, let's maybe tack on marketing- Mm-hmm ... and get pretty good at that, or get someone to help me out with that. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So that would be my, my long-winded answer.

Audra Nance, DC: I love that.

That's- You should start your own podcast. You're already a- Well, I have one ... podcasting It's on hiatus. Okay.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Why? You got... What are you doing? You didn't- Oh, yeah ... do

Audra Nance, DC: it for two hours? There just weren't enough hours in the day. But no, thank you so much for having me. Yeah. Um, anyone that needs to contact me, don't hesitate to reach out.

I'm on Instagram, um, @draudralance, and now it's [00:42:00] drlance@experiencelumara.com.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Perfect. Love it. And, uh- Yeah ... thank you so much for this, and, uh, hopefully we have a part two of this at some point.

Audra Nance, DC: I would love that.