Hey, chiropractors. We're ready for another Modern Chiropractic Marketing Show with Dr. Kevin Christie, where we discuss the latest in marketing strategies, contact marketing, direct response marketing, and business development with some of the leading experts in the industry.

Kevin: Welcome. This is your host, Dr. Kevin Christie, and today I've got an interview with Darcy Sullivan, who's done a lot of SEO work for me, for a lot of the chiropractors inside of the Modern Chiropractic Marketing group, and so we're going to dive into SEO. We have kind of had this theme going with Google, Google My Business, and then SEO is a big part of that, and then we're going to dive into all kinds of stuff today - on page, off page, SEO, some mistakes chiropractors are making. That's happening a lot, for sure, and then we even dive into some steps to creating a successful SEO campaign. This isn't the first time I've had Darcy on. [0:01:01.9] 

She has been a guest, I think this is either the second or third time, and we'll always get updates on SEO. She's a part of the Facebook group and helping a lot of chiropractors. She is going to be contributing a module inside of the Chiropractic Success Academy, so definitely a resource that I highly recommend and enjoy speaking to and getting some updates. And again, she helps out with my SEO and my private practice. Before we dive into that episode, I do want to mention the fact that I'm super excited about attending and fortunate enough to speak at again, and that’s going to be Forward 2019 in St. Louis. I'm actually pairing up with John Morrison, and we're diving into a really good 2-hour marketing presentation, where we're going to jump into a lot of what I talk about, some new stuff, though, and a lot of the story branding and messaging that John does. So we're going to team up. We have got it really good. We have submitted the outline of the presentation. We're excited about it. [0:02:03.3] 

We will be there together, presenting, so I highly recommend that event. It's going to be in St. Louis. You can go to ForwardThinkingChiro.com and right up there on the top, you can get your tickets, and all kinds of great stuff - amazing speakers. Really, this list is awesome. And this is going to be September 20 - 22. And again, that's at Logan University, my alma mater, so I'm looking forward to going back. You know, I haven’t been back in a while. I graduated in 2005. I think I went back in 2006, eh, maybe it was 2007, for a Motion Palpation Institute seminar. And that's been the last time I've been there and it's going to be interesting to go back. I know they got the Purser Center there, which wasn’t there when I was in school, but it will be - you know for me, I think it's going to be an exciting moment, you know, to be able to go back to school, but being on stage there and presenting to chiropractors. [0:03:01.2]

It's come full circle, and it's exciting, so I'm looking forward to it. So join us there. Again, that's ForwardThinkingChiro.com. Many good speakers. I'm excited to speak with John Morrison and him and I will be doing more of that in the future as well. So, check that out, and let's dive right in. This is my interview with Darcy Sullivan. Okay. I've got Darcy Sullivan on the podcast again. I really enjoy talking to you. I know you and I have known each other for many years now, and you've done my SEO and now working with a lot of chiropractors out there, so, take a minute to introduce yourself again.

Darcy: Okay. Hi. I am Darcy Sullivan. I am the founder of Propel Marketing and Design, and I love working with companies to help them improve their online presence and their website rankings.

Kevin: Yep. And you've done that for me. So, I appreciate that.

Darcy: Thank you. Glad to hear it.

Kevin: Definitely. You know, it's just been interesting - we have been diving a lot into different things inside of the Chiropractic Success Academy. [0:04:06.2] 

We just had our CSA retreat in Portland, Oregon. Been talking to more and more chiropractors every day and every week. I was also in Tampa at Dr. Jeff Langmaid's event, and spoke with them, but one of the common themes definitely seems to be Google and obviously akin to that is the SEO. So, that's obviously your expertise. There's definitely a need for it, and let's -- I want to just dive right into some of the top mistakes you're seeing, from an SEO standpoint that most chiropractors are making.

Darcy: Oh, okay. Great. So, I think one of the first ones is SEO right now isn't just about your website. Right? You've got on-page SEO and you've got off-page SEO. On-page SEO is what happens on your website that helps you climb up Google, and then you have off-page SEO, which is what actions you can take off of your website to help improve your rankings. [0:05:12.3] 

And when it comes to on-page SEO, I think one of the first things that I see with some chiropractors that haven’t really dived too far into content marketing or SEO is they just have a plain website that is nothing more than a brochure. And they're really missing the opportunity to connect with their audience. And another thing that I see - well, there are a number of them and we'll go through them - but a lot of people tend to use what I call "doctor talk," where they're talking to the audience using the terms as they relate to what you're going to do when somebody gets there versus using the terms that people are searching. So, if I'm coming to you because I've got a shooting pain in my back or I have this problem, sometimes the words that are on your website don’t match the search terms that people are actually using. [0:06:09.9] 

And I think you did a great job with this when we worked your website, one of the times that we talked about adding content, is we have got the problems words and the solution words. So you've got why they would be coming to you, whether it's back pain or a sports injury, and then you've got ART or the process that you walk through. But if I haven’t seen you yet, and I don’t know about some of these advanced techniques, you're not going to be able to pull me in by just talking about them without using the words that I'm searching for.

Kevin: So you're saying there's just been a big incongruence between what actual people will search in Google versus what people are actually putting in their website a little bit too scientific? 

Darcy: Yes, specifically as it relates to the chiropractors. So it's going to be harder to rank for terms like, you know, shooting pain in the back, or whatever people are coming in to see you for…[0:07:06.0]

Kevin: Yep.

Darcy: … if you don’t actually use those terms in your website.

Kevin: So, you know, obviously one of the things chiropractors would love, and I think a lot of them mistakenly think this is all SEO is is that if someone is going to search chiropractor, Boca Rotan, and they want to be number one on there, which I get that for sure, but that's hard, especially if you're in a very competitive area. But, there's more to SEO than that. Right? Like, people just aren’t searching chiropractor, Boca Rotan, and getting to a site. Like there's a lot of other ways and a lot of different terms people search that could get to your site. 

Darcy: Absolutely. And I've seen this with a lot of chiropractors is once you get down into the nitty-gritty, and you don’t have to necessarily do it on your website, it can be on your blog if you write a specific blog article, that people can find you using more what we call long tail keywords, where they're longer. Right? [0:08:05.9]

Kevin: Yeah. Break that down. Break down "long tail" for us.

Darcy: Okay. So that could be neck pain due to car injury.

Kevin: Uh-huh.

Darcy: Or car accident. You know, you, the longer the keyword phrase, we call it a long tail versus short, which would be "chiropractor." And the nice thing about going with a strategy where you're trying to use some of these longer terms, keyword terms, is that you're going to relate better to your audience. And I've seen this with a number of chiropractors in your group. When they say, "Darcy, you know, after we chatted, I took that into account and I started putting together content around some very specific topics that I knew related to the audience that was coming through my doors." And then they're getting more people coming through their doors because they feel like they're relatable. They see, "Oh, you fixed this specific problem for somebody else or oh, you have content on your website that specifically relates to my problem," and not only are you addressing the problem, but then you're linking and giving information about the solution that you offer for that problem. [0:09:12.4]

Kevin: Okay. That makes sense, and that's why probably things like a blog are so important. I know I preach that a lot. I think sometimes oh, when chiropractors hear that, they think to themselves, like, "Oh, I'm not going to be a, you know, compete in the blogosphere and write these robust blogs that are going to be, you know, thousands and thousands and thousands of views and make me famous." It's not really about that necessarily, right?

Darcy: No. And I'm glad that you brought that up. So one thing is - I think people think, "Oh, my gosh - I have to blog every single week." And you don’t. And I think that, you know, now with your blog, if you hide the date then you're at a place where somebody isn't coming to your blog and saying, "Oh. Well they wrote a blog a month ago." And it's more about the quality of content, and for those people that are thinking, "Oh, I just don’t have time," you can still provide lots of value to your audience without taking up too much time. [0:10:12.7] 

And two tips that I want to give for that are - you know, there are tons of resources that are already out there, and you can leverage what I can, or what other people call, OPC (Other People's Content). So, let's just say somebody has already put into account and done some amazing videos that relate to specific exercises or stretches that you want to talk about. You could put together a blog and embed their videos. So you're getting a blog that has quality content; you didn’t have to deal with the production level of doing the filming yourself. You get somebody that's watching the videos, so they're staying longer on your website, which is a great indicator to Google, and you're providing quality without taking up as much time. [0:11:01.0] 

And another example that I'd like to give is infographics. So, if somebody already has an infographic out that is on, you know, what you can do at your desk, some stretches, or anything that you know your audience would directly relate to, you don’t necessarily have to have a designer go out and redesign it. You can provide that on your blog as long as you give credit to the original source, and I would suggest adding content around it to build it out more, but you don’t have to necessarily start from scratch.

Kevin: Yeah, that's one thing that we have done inside the Chiropractic Success Academy. We have content repository in there.

Darcy: Yeah!

Kevin: And it's not meant to be canned and everybody using the same thing, but it's meant to, "Oh! Here's a good topic and good information," and then you can take a lot of that, some of it, add in their own stuff, plug in their YouTube video that they have and make it a little more personalized to them, but at least it's a really good starting point for them.

Darcy: Absolutely. Absolutely. And that really does, I think, take the ease off of somebody coming in that says, "Oh, I just can't do this." [0:12:04.6]

And the other thing is using tools, like we have talked about before, Grammarly, to make sure that, you know, your content, that the grammar is correct.

Kevin: Yep.

Darcy: Because you don’t want somebody coming to your website and being like, "Oomph, how I am going to trust somebody with my body when they don’t know how to hardly write something."

Kevin: I'm an amazing editor of content now because of Grammarly.

Darcy: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah, it's great. And the other thing that we use, too, is Yost for SEO.

Darcy: Yes. Now, I'm glad that you mentioned that. So Yost is great if you're using WordPress. I just… sometimes people think because they have a plugin, like Yost, installed or they bought some of kind of package when they signed up with Go Daddy, that they're "doing SEO."

Kevin: Yeah. That's not right.

Darcy: And it's not right where they, you know, unfortunately some people think, "Oh, I have Google Analytics installed on my website. I'm doing SEO." You're not doing SEO. Those are tools, but you've got to take those tools and use them. [0:13:06.7]

Kevin: And part of doing SEO, I guess, would be creating content.

Darcy: Absolutely. And you know, we live in a content world and there's a couple of ways that you can relate and maximize the pieces of content that you put together.

Kevin: Yep.

Darcy: And you know, if you are writing long form blogs, you need to make sure that you're breaking up the content, that it's easily scannable, and that it directly relates to your target market. And you've got to think about, before you even create a piece of content, what is the goal - what is the action that you're trying to get somebody to take, and make sure that that action, that they know to take it based off of that piece of content.

Kevin: Perfect. So you mentioned a few things and I want to get a little bit of, to break it down a little bit here. Time on site - Google likes that, right? [0:13:59.6]

Darcy: Yes. So that would be the dwell time, how long somebody dwells on your website. And there are a number of different ways that you can help increase this. And one would be - well, let's start with the very basics. Your website has to be mobile friendly these days. Right? Like if somebody is on a phone and they go to your website and it's loading too slow or it's just not mobile friendly, they're gone.

Kevin: Yep.

Darcy: They're absolutely gone. And you have to have an SSL Certificate for security purposes as well. So when somebody lands on your website, now they need to know, as soon as they get there, that they're in the right place. So your homepage kind of be the best of. Right? They should see, okay, this person does offer, be specific, they treat, you know, this pain, this pain, this pain. I know I'm in the right place. They offer these services. So your website should, your homepage should just kind of be like the best of, and they should be able to not only know that they're in the right place, but then easily navigate to the content that they need to get to within a couple of clicks. [0:15:06.3] 

And then from there, like if they're finding your website a blog, then they easily, you want to include links back to other content to get them to stay on longer. So, if you're writing a blog and it's talking about back pain, you could click, you know, include a link inside your website to another page that relates to it, or if you talk about a service you provide, then you could link to a chiropractic service that relates to it.

Kevin: Perfect. Good. Thank you. Another thing - blog frequency. Would, what, like I try to cover this a lot. If they did a blog a month that would probably be a good start for them. What do you think as far as frequency?

Darcy: So, one - it always comes to quality over quantity.

Kevin: Okay.

Darcy: And I think that, you know, you’ve got to talk to your people the way that they want to listen. So you can't just dump in tech, you know, tech talk and relates to doctor talk. [0:16:04.8]

Kevin: Okay.

Darcy: And I think that, you know, people do get hung up on, "Oh, I should blog once a week, twice a week or once a week, two times a month." If you feel like that's too much for you, again, you can go to leveraging other people's content or you can look at past performers that are doing good. We call this evergreen content - content that maybe you did a year ago that is still relevant. Right? Because stretches or whatever haven’t quite changed, you can go and just take some content that you know is already performing pretty well on Google by looking at your Analytics, what's actually driving traffic to your website, not the top one or two, because they're already performing probably at their better level - but take some of those that are a couple down from there and jozsh them up, you know, vamp them up, add to them. And then move them to the top. So you don't necessarily need to start from scratch, so you don’t feel as overwhelmed. [0:17:02.4]

Kevin: Good.

Darcy: But it is good to get, you know, fresh content out there as often as you can without feeling overwhelmed, and you know, putting together a 300-word blog just doesn’t cut it anymore.

Kevin: Is there a range of word count?

Darcy: I mean, I usually like to see good quality over 1000.

Kevin: Okay. Perfect.

Darcy: Usually over 1500, but that can be a lot for some people.

Kevin: Yeah.

Darcy: And so, you know, I don’t want anybody to turn away from doing it because they don’t feel like they can keep up with that. And if you can leverage video, right, you're going to get people staying on there longer.

Kevin: Definitely. Perfect. Okay, and then early on, you mentioned, obviously there was on-page and off-page. Can you break down a little bit of the off-page?

Darcy: Sure. So off-page is what happens off of your website. And I know that you had, I believe, a couple of podcasts specifically related to Google My Business and online reviews, and those play key factors. [0:18:07.1] 

In addition to that, you have your overall NAP Citation - your Name, your Address, and your Phone number. And those need to be consistent off of your website. So when you go through your social media, when you're looking on Yelp, when you're at places, everything needs to match. I know sometimes when people or companies get started and then they move around that sometimes they don’t get in the habit of updating that. So there could be old information that's unfortunately floating around there. And for that, you know, you can use, if you're concerned with that or don’t feel like you have time to go in and clean it up, you can use citation services like Moz Local or Whitespark.

Kevin: Okay.

Darcy: And Whitespark has a couple of different options. They have citation builder services, citation audit and cleanup services and additional local search audit services. So you just, again, want to make sure all directories and anywhere your company is mentioned online that it's pointing to the right information. [0:19:14.7]

Kevin: Perfect. That's great.

Darcy: And also, off-page, you know, we talked very briefly about social media, but you also have - that's a huge one. Right? 

Kevin: I think that's something that a lot of chiropractors don’t get either, and I kind of wrap it up as like a total web presence thing, is if you're on, you know, Facebook and Google and YouTube and all those things, how much that's going to do for the Google Search as well.

Darcy: Right. So with that, what I'd like to say is think about findability. Yeah, you might not, Twitter might not be the place that you decide you're going to keep pushing your information out, but it would better for you to have your social media presence there and if somebody were to look up something on there, see your company instead of a company that also has your same name, or somebody else take the name that you wanted within a social media site. [0:20:10.8]

Kevin: That makes sense.

Darcy: So I say, you know, claim all the major ones, and then if you're going to use them, great. If you decide they don’t work for you, at least you've got something that has your company information, your website information. People can find you through them.

Kevin: Yeah, it's like, it's like Yelp as well, where there's a lot of chiropractors and myself included, we're kind of, I mean I think a lot of people are disgruntled with Yelp, and…

Darcy: Yeah!

Kevin: … they're frustrated with it, and they think that it's a, you know, situation where you've got to start paying for ads and if you stop, they're going to take your reviews, and I know there's a lot going on with that, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't have a well-developed Yelp page, hopefully get some organic reviews, but then, you know, Google does like Yelp and so…

Darcy: You know, it is a factor in your ranking, these online reviews. [0:21:01.2]

And it - people know when they go and they read reviews that there's going to be a chance that there's going to be some negative ones. And I think that it gives you the opportunity, if you do get negative reviews, if you reply to them in the right way, it really can benefit you more than some of the positive. It might sound weird, but I think it allows you to address people's thoughts or concerns in a way that you couldn't before.

Kevin: Definitely. Definitely. Perfect. So yeah, you know, the off-page and conceptual terms is everything off your website, I guess, off Google, but definitely on all the other platforms that are out there that Google does like and rank, and it just helps for a nice total web presence and increase SEO.

Darcy: Yes. And also, you know, there are link-building strategies involved that are part of your off-page SEO campaigns, and these relate to, specifically - I suggest to people that are trying to rank locally that the more involved you are with your community, you can usually get links back to your website that will help improve your rankings as well. [0:22:15.5]

Kevin: Perfect. Alright. And then, any other mistakes, glaring mistakes, that chiropractors are making, or did we cover that pretty well?

Darcy: So I would say another big one is not knowing where their website's traffic is coming from.

Kevin: Ah! Perfect!

Darcy: So I think some people can be a little overwhelmed with Google Analytics.

Kevin: Uh-huh.

Darcy: And so for them, I suggest Clicky, which is also a free analytic software that some people just find a little bit easier to use.

Kevin: Okay. And let's switch gears a little bit because we don’t want to bash chiropractors too much, right?

Darcy: No, not at all.

Kevin: You know, it's funny because obviously, the big thing is overwhelm and it's trying to be a doctor, some of us trying to be a doctor, trying to be a business owner, trying to get out and network…[0:23:06.0]

Darcy: Yeah.

Kevin: … face-to-face, and so then, this whole thing gets a whole other profession, really. That's why I'm a big believer in outsourcing as much as you possibly can. But if you can, concisely, I want to just run through some steps of creating a successful SEO campaign. 

Darcy: Okay. So, the number one, and I think that some people kind of just skip over this or generalize it, is really outlining your buyer personas. And because you can't just say that anybody needs chiropractic services. They do. But it's hard to relate to people when you're talking to anybody versus you know, narrowing it down and having a couple of different specific buyer personas that you're talking to. So then, that outlines and changes everything because then you know where they are online. You know, I was talking to a chiropractor the other day who was talking about running these short Instagram videos, and then I asked him, and I'm like, "Well, is that where your buyer persona goes to search for information?" [0:24:09.8]

And he's like, "I don't know," and I'm like, "Well before you invest all this time and money in it, you know, you need to map out who it is that you're selling to and where they go to find information online before you just jump on the bandwagon with some of these specific techniques."

Kevin: You know, I want to interject real quick because it's interesting you bring that up. I do some one-on-one stuff with some chiropractors I'm working with and we have dove pretty deep into psychographics.

Darcy: Uh-huh.

Kevin: And then, I first really dove into that topic with some of Seth Godin's information, and then recently, I'm reading a book called Clockwork and the gentleman's name that wrote it is pretty long and confusing. Actually, it's Mike Michalowicz, but it's spelled with way too many letters. [0:25:01.2] 

So, yeah, it's called Clockwork and he actually dove into psychographics as well, and then he talked about - so, for the audience, I know you know the difference, but the difference between a demographics and a psychographics and the best analogy I can give is your demographics are your typical things like age, race, sex, income, all of whatever, location. Well the psychographics would be if I mention a crossfitter. You kind of know like, okay, certain age group, health conscious, definitely fit and into all of that type of stuff. There's definitely a persona of that person, but then what this book broke down was trying to find the congregation points of these psychographics, and so like crossfit, where is there a congregation point? "The Box," they call it. Right? They even named it something, and so, you want to try to find where - first, you need to really get clear on your psychographics that you're going to be targeting and then from there, you want to get clear on where do these people congregate. [0:26:07.8] 

And sometimes it's offline, like a Box, and sometimes it's online, like I'm a big sponsor of a triathlon group and they have a really good closed Facebook group in there. So it's a congregation point for a particular audience for me. And that's kind of what you're talking about, is like, you know, is your clearly defined audience even on Instagram, or are they on whatever. Right?

Darcy: Right. So, you know, I love that example that you give because you're going to be able to directly relate and connect with the people within that group and that congregation better than you are just throwing something out there, you know, necessarily even to your generalized audience because your generalized audience on Facebook might not relate to you the same way that these specific ones do, especially if you mention something that directly relates to an injury that could come from what their activity is, or something that's just directly related to them. [0:27:05.3] 

And I think that that, connecting with your ideal audience, is such a huge part of successful SEO campaign, digital marketing campaign, basic marketing campaign in general, and people just kind of graze over it without really diving deep into it. So I love that you talked about that.

Kevin: Yeah, we definitely try to dive into the roadmap of marketing, which I spoke about at Vegas, the Parker seminar there, for the first time. But essentially, the mistake a lot of chiropractors are making, and people in general that try to market their business is that they think social media is marketing, per se, and it's definitely a part of it, but it's really just a vehicle and the way I broke it down was you've got the, you know, you've got your destination, which is where you want to get to and that's kind of having your plan and all the different things like that. [0:28:03.1]

Then you have the vehicle, which is your distribution channels, which is, you know, social media, email, direct mail, whatever it may be. And then you've got your GPS, which is really getting clear on your messaging and how you're going to get that there, and then the content is the fuel. Right? And so…

Darcy: Right.

Kevin: … you need to have it all together to have an effective marketing strategy around that, and so, it's no different, even with SEO. If your messaging is off, and you're not creating enough consistent content, then it's going to be hard to have a really well developed SEO strategy.

Darcy: Absolutely. And another thing that I want to mention, while we're talking about, you know, your audience is the words that they use. So you know, we're seeing this growth when it comes to voice search…

Kevin: Yep.

Darcy: … and if you focus on using some of the natural language keywords, these terms that people are using, you're going to set yourself up for success in the future, early on. [0:29:04.6]

Kevin: Yep.

Darcy: So that's perfect and very important. And then you know, we did talk about the fact that SEO takes place on your website and off of your website. So you do have to consider that as well. Then there are some key elements when it does come to on-page SEO that I think everybody needs to consider.

Kevin: What are a few of those?

Darcy: So, obviously, having an analytic system set up so you know what people are doing on your website, how they're getting there. Your website has to load quickly. You need a sitemap. It has to be mobile friendly and responsive. You need an SSL Certificate. Your URL's need to be friendly. So, even today, we're still seeing some URLs that are like, yourwebsite.com/p?523 when it's a back pain page, and it should be yourwebsite/backpain. [0:30:03.8]

Kevin: Yep.

Darcy: You know, your images need to have alt tags so that it's telling search engines what that actual content is, and you know, it used to be that you took a keyword and you tried to sprinkle it throughout every single page on your website. And now what you want to do is do long-form content with a specific keyword designated for each page, or keyword term, and using that, you know, in your H1 tags and your H2 tags, your H3 tags and making it very scannable content.

Kevin: I don’t want to get into the weeds too much, but can you just tell us what an H1, H2, H3 is?

Darcy: So, those are your headers. So those kind of break up content. Because right now, we're such a - we just - we can't pay too much - we don’t pay too much attention. So when we're on a website, we need these like headers to announce like "this is what we're talking about with back pain. Here are some bullet points." [0:31:07.1]

You want to go through and make sure that you're using your keywords with these headers, and you see them when you go to a website or a blog post, when you see a little bit of content and then a bigger, bolder term and then the information that follows it. It allows it to be more scannable. 

Kevin: Okay.

Darcy: And you know, we briefly talked about this before, but somebody needs to know as soon as they land on your website exactly what you do within a couple of seconds, and I think you guys, most chiropractors, do a good job of that. It's just on their homepage, it's nice to know and see the services they offer and that link to, you know, the specific service pages, and then also, the problems that people have - the back pain, the neck pain, why people come to see them. So that they know, as soon as they get there, "Oh yeah, I'm in the right place." It's also good to make sure that you have a search bar, which helps. I call that like the catchall. So if somebody comes to a website, they don’t necessarily see how to get to what they're looking for, but they have a place where they can look for it, they're going to find it. [0:32:10.1]

Kevin: Yeah, definitely. And it's part of that whole thing is getting the content out there that they're looking for. Right? That you…

Darcy: Absolutely.

Kevin: … mentioned earlier. So.

Darcy: Absolutely. Then you know, also including links - internal links, external links, including testimonials and social proof. Making sure, again, that you're actually using your keywords on your website. So I've had before, when I start to talk to chiropractors and other people, where we talk about, you know, what specific keywords they really want to rank for and then I tell them, "You know, you're not actually using those keywords on your website." So sometimes, we forget or we just assume that it's there. So it's a good idea to go through and scan your website and make sure you actually are using these terms that you want to rank for.

Kevin: Perfect. I love it. [0:33:01.0]

Darcy: Yeah, and then, of course, like your contact information, every single page. Easy to find. People need to be able to get to you and know how to contact you.

Kevin: Yeah, you know, I just - just to kind of summarize it, I think ultimately, you know I try to tell chiropractors to become kind of a media company in a sense or a content producing machine and it's a lot easier than a lot of people think. There's definitely a learning curve and there's some work to do, but you can do it, and what ends up happening is - you know, I've been, I've been doing it since I opened my practice in 2010, my own practice. Before, when I was a partner and an associate, I didn’t have any say in it and you know, I did do a lot of it. But now, it's, you know, we're nine years into this particular business and you know, we have got a pretty well-oiled machine. A lot of it is being delegated out. I didn’t delegate it out early on and I did a lot of it, but there's so many more resources out there now, and just one of the biggest benefits of creating good content, aside from you know obviously getting it out there and attracting people and educating people, that's obviously huge. But it's just the backend of it, like this type of stuff is, I can't tell you how many people I get that come in because they found some content or anything like that. You know, now we're getting the 8-15 Google referrals a month and it's just - it really helps drive the practice. [0:34:25.3]

Darcy: I love that. And I do think that, you know, you mentioned delegating and planning and I think that you guys, you do a whole day where your, one of your days a week, or at least it used to be, was designated specifically to that. And I think that sometimes what happens is people think of it as an afterthought, but if you can sit down and plan out like the quarter, before the next quarter - what are our main, what are our three main goals. And if your three main goals, one should always be retention and then what are your other two, and then decide what type of content and what type SEO plan you want to have surrounding achieving those goals. [0:35:08.2]

Kevin: I love it. That's good. So now the exciting news. I got a chance to look through it. It looks great. Tell us a little bit about the Academy that you've got put together, the program.

Darcy: So we just launched. It's called Ready, Set, Rank and it is a three-step system that helps people go through and increase their website rankings. I tried to do something that had the short-term wins and long-term game plan without having to feel like you're in a tech tizzy, as I call it. So it -- you can really see results within 12 weeks and it does start with a foundation of identifying, you know, your buyer persona, getting really connected in on that and then upgrading your website. [0:36:01.2]

And most people these days can really handle going in and making edits, adding content to your website. I think most of the people listening probably either have a WordPress website, a Wix, or a Squarespace website, and those right now offer you the opportunity to be able to update and add content with ease. You just need to know how to optimize it and you know, as you mentioned, what to delegate out and what you can handle in-house. In addition, the truth of the matter is is that no matter what SEO expert or website designer or writer you turn to or graphic designer, you know your industry. You know what people are coming in to see you for, and you know how you help them. So you know - you have that basis of what the content should be. It's just a matter of having a plan to get it out there.

Kevin: Perfect. And what's that URL? I'll make sure to have it in the show notes but how can they look into that? [0:37:00.3]

Darcy: You can either go to ReadySetRank.com or PropelYourCompany/ReadySetRank and I'll give you that information as well.

Kevin: Perfect. I love it. It's really good information. I got a chance to look through it. I give my seal of approval, for whatever that's worth or not worth, but you know, I want to thank you for all the information. Every time you're on, you bring really good valuable take-home information, not just 30,000-foot overview stuff. And so I do appreciate that.

Darcy: Thanks! Like I said, you have a wonderful group that you guys are reaching out to. So, glad I could be a part of it.

Kevin: Definitely. Thank you for helping out, and so I know you and I will probably talk soon. Okay?

Darcy: Sounds great. Thank you so much. 

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 Hey, chiropractors. We're ready for another Modern Chiropractic Marketing Show with Dr. Kevin Christie, where we discuss the latest in marketing strategies, contact marketing, direct response marketing, and business development with some of the leading experts in the industry.

Kevin: All right, welcome. Another episode of The Modern Chiropractic Marketing show. This is your host, Dr. Kevin Christie, and today I'm bringing a solo episode to you, and we're going to discuss the difference between psychographics and demographics, and it's a key distinction and we're going to dive into that. I think a lot of people hear so much about demographics when marketing and when positioning or figuring out where you're going to open up your clinic and things like that. You know, not that demographics aren’t important, but I believe psychographics for marketing and positioning is more important for you, so we'll break that down. 

Before we do, just a few pieces of information. [0:01:00.6] One is, as of July 1st, the Chiropractic Success Academy is closed. There is a waitlist you can join, but it is closed for the time being, for probably a few months. We're working on the members we have in there; we have now over 100 paid members, which just blows my mind, and it's great. We had the great CSA retreat in Portland, and that was fun, and so just overall we grew more than we, I guess, probably expected, and we're shutting down registration for a few months to focus on the current members, onboard them, and then we're going to make some changes to the Academy, some improvements. We're going to have a well-delineated success path, we're going to ramp up the content repository, we're going to have a preferred providers list inside the Academy and more collaboration with content producers, just really building this puppy out and making it something even more special than it is. [0:02:07.2] So we have closed that. You can join the waitlist, and it's just something where you can join that, and then once we do open it, we'll give you a heads up and let you know to do that. You can just go to www.CSACircle.com/waitlist to do that, and that will be in the show notes.

All right, next announcement, we've got three today and that was the first one. The second one is, I hope you join me at Forward 2019 in St. Louis. I'll be presenting there and hanging out there and having a good time and helping out people as much as I can. I'll be chatting and answering questions, so join us. That's going to be in St. Louis September 20th through 22nd, my alma mater.  I'm looking forward to going back, haven’t been there in a while, so check that out. [0:03:01.1] You can go to ForwardThinkingChiro.com and register. This will sell out. It sold out last year, and it will sell out this year, so make sure you get on that.

And then lastly, Motion Palpation Institute, they are a sponsor of the podcast, and I talk a lot about what it takes to be a thriving chiropractor, and that includes communication, marketing, and business, but it also obviously entails clinical expertise. And I think sometimes we know that, but then sometimes we forget about it as well, and Motion Palpation just really builds a better chiropractor. Each year they have an Adjust-a-thon, and it's full spine analysis and adjusting technique, and this year it is going to be at Cleveland University in Kansas City, and that is September 28th and 29th. So maybe you will just hang out in the Midwest the weekend of the Forward event, and then the following weekend in Kansas City. [0:04:02.4] So check that out as well, and you can go to MotionPalpation.org/seminars, and again that will be in the show notes.

All right, let's dive into the topic, psychographics versus demographics. You know, typically we hear demographics, you know, like for instance, I'm a 39-year-old, white male, education, certain income level, things of that nature; those are your typical demographics. And then the psychographics is going to be more of what your patients' lifestyles, personalities, aspirations, values, and interests represent, so it's more like how they behave. That's why it's called psychographics and it's more about how they behave versus what they are. And yeah, sometimes they will match up, like certain demographics might have different psychographics, or certain psychographics might have a similar demographic. [0:05:00.0] One of the examples I use as a good psychographic that I'll break down, and you could apply this to different ones and I'll give a few examples, but CrossFitters, right? As chiropractors, we treat a lot of CrossFitters, and they have a certain set of psychographics, but they also have pretty similar demographics. There are different things, but you know, they typically have a certain age group and certain income level, certain education level, things like that. But as far as psychographics, I think when I say CrossFitter to you, it pops, like yeah, they are different. They're super health conscious, they're competitive, typically type A, they're focused, and they want to improve performance. A lot of times they will have a little bit of a tweak in, you know, the shoulder and they will come in for care for it; whereas, you know, Bob, the 50-year-old carpenter, probably has to be on his deathbed before he's coming in to see you. [0:06:00.4] But the CrossFitter, which is, you know, honestly why it's been such a good patient population for chiropractors is because of the psychographics of the CrossFitter. Now, there's maybe some negatives of the CrossFitter. From what I've found, you know, if you're not in network and very affordable, a lot of the CrossFitters tend to be in their 20s, and they're just struggling to pay their CrossFit membership, let alone coming and paying cash rates consistently in your practice. So it can be difficult if you're like my practice where we're out of network with almost everything now, except for one plan, and then we have higher cash rates, so it can be trickier for the CrossFitter. But you know, ultimately when I say CrossFitter, you understand the certain psychographics that they have.

And then the next thing, which was interesting. So I first started learning about the psychographic thing through the marketing seminar with Seth Godin, and he talked a lot about it and I started getting interested in it. [0:07:03.9] And then recently I'm reading a book that's really not about marketing, but it's called "Clockwork," and it's by Mike Michalowicz, and it's more a book about running your business to where it's like clockwork, like runs without you. But he has a whole section in there about psychographics, and what I read to you earlier about, you know, the lifestyles, the personalities, aspirations, values, interests, it's from that particular book. And then he brought up an interesting point that what you really need to then do is figure out where the congregation points are for the particular psychographic. And so using the CrossFitter analogy or example is great because now where is a congregation point for the CrossFitter? And it really lends itself to even what I think made CrossFit so popular. [0:08:04.9] And such a quick point was that the developer of CrossFit hit on these things, like he hit on the certain psychographics and realized there needed to be a congregation point, and they even named the congregation point The Box, right? They call their gym The Box; they don’t even call it a gym. They came up with a whole unique naming for the congregation point of these CrossFitters, and so you need to figure out where these congregation points are of the psychographics.

So, you know, if you want to position yourself as a, let's just, you know, I use my practice a lot as an evidence-based sports chiropractor, and you want to work with a lot of athletes, you need to get clear on the psychographics and then who falls into that. And so for me, a lot of the psychographics that I picked were, you know, the health-conscious, competitive, type-A, good education/job, has the resources, really cares about performance and health, needs results quickly, not afraid to come in and get care for their injury. [0:09:05.0] So that was what I really wanted my practice to be, and then from there I figured, okay, who is that? I started practicing before CrossFit was invented, so that wasn’t out of the gates; but some of the ones I really thought about were, okay, how about runners and triathletes? That's a big one, and they have a congregation point. There are going to be races and running stores and running groups; there are all kinds of congregation points. And then golfers, right? You know, with golfers, there are obviously certain psychographics that lend themselves to be wanting to come in for care, and then a congregation point would be country clubs and golf clubs and golf stores, and connecting with golf pros, things of that nature. So you have all these different types of psychographics, and then you're going to have groups that fall within, whether it's the runner, the triathlete, the golfer, the cyclist, the swimmer, the CrossFitter. How about the desk worker with a congregation point being corporate locations and doing health talks and health fairs at those congregation points, right? [0:10:04.5] And so that's the essence of psychographics, then figuring out what kind of group does this fall into, and so you figure out the different psychographics you want, then what groups would match up, and it doesn’t have to be perfect, but congruent with those psychographics. Then, what congregation points do they have, and then how can you obviously target that. That is kind of where your clearly defined message has to match that clearly defined audience.

Now, let's break down the congregation point into two things. You can have offline congregation points like The Box or the country club or the running group; and then you can have online congregation points, and sometimes that's like a closed Facebook group. For instance, the triathlon group that I sponsor, they have a really well-developed closed Facebook group, and they have given me permission to provide good content there, so that's an online congregation point for that group. [0:11:06.4] Or even with Facebook ads, the targeting is so great that you can target psychographics, and so Facebook is a congregation point for almost all of these types of people. You know, you could write an article on CrossFit injuries and target people whose hobby and interest is CrossFit, and so that is an online congregation point. So you can start getting clear on those and getting clear on your messaging, which is a whole other topic, and you now develop a content marketing strategy to target the online congregation points of these people. Then you would also target offline, which would be more of your networking and community outreach and public speaking, all those things, right? Like so many chiropractors have done so well with CrossFit because they have done a lot of trainings at The Box, or they work out at a Box; that's an offline, more connecting type of face-to-face thing, which is really, really important for some of these congregation points. [0:12:02.8] It's hard to be the expert in CrossFit if you're just going to only do online stuff and things like that. So that's the online versus offline congregation points.

To touch a little bit on the messaging, right, like the story brand thing, let's now use the golfers. We'll use that as an example, and you say, okay, how do I get a clearly defined message to that golfer? Well, what is the problem that the golfer has that would come and see you. Then as the story brand talks about, there's the external conflict, internal conflict, and philosophical conflict. The external conflict would be, let's just call it low back pain, right, very common. So you could sit down and write out, okay, CrossFitters, what are their external problems: shoulder, back, knee. Golfer: back, shoulder, wrist, elbow. Whatever you want to do, write out the external conflicts they have. Now with that golfer, the low back pain is the external conflict, but what the internal conflict could be is that they can't play golf, and what do they get out of playing golf? [0:13:08.1] What do they suffer when they can't play golf? Like maybe it's their escape on weekends; maybe it's their unwinding from a hard job; or maybe it's their way of getting away from their spouse; or it's camaraderie with the foursome they have; or it feeds that competitiveness that they miss since they left high school and they're not an athlete any more. There's all these internal things that it can be, and their back pain is impacting the internal conflicts. And then the philosophical conflicts could be they're afraid they're not going to be able to play golf anymore, or they're going to lose 30 yards of their drive, or they have to rest for eight weeks, right? All these different things that can come from that perspective as far as philosophical; they don’t want to rest, or they don’t want to have surgery, or they don’t want to not play golf, and they don’t know where to go and frankly they don’t have a solution to their back problem. They think it's just an it-is-what-it-is type of thing. [0:14:03.9] And so in your messaging, you can really handle all three of those conflicts, and so that's a little bit about having that clearly defined message to match up with that clearly defined audience. So your golfer matches up with the psychographics you're looking for; you know where the congregation points are, both online and offline; and you develop a plan to fill that need in the marketplace, right?

Then that's how you build the practice of your dreams, you know, because ultimately I think, and I'm just going to wrap this up, a mistake a lot of chiropractors make is they think they have to be everything to everybody—and that's not just a chiropractic thing, that's a business thing in general—but a lot of chiropractors tend to be generalists and want to do everything, and they don’t have a specific niche and they don’t target that niche properly. But if you do this right and you're consistent with it, you will then have the practice that will be mainly consisting of patients that match the psychographics you're looking for. [0:15:03.1] Yes, you're going to get other types of patients; I have Medicare patients here, but it's not the majority of my patient base. It's mostly active people, a lot of athletes, and then there's some of the outliers, which is fine. It's a well-rounded practice, but the majority of my patient base fit into that psychographic that I'm targeting, and you can do the same.

So, I hope that helped. It's something that I think can be teased out a lot more; I'm definitely teasing it out in depth in an exercise that I'm working on with some of my clients, some of my chiropractors that I'm working with, but it's definitely a topic that needs to be teased out a little bit more, and you can build your marketing strategy around it. Have a great week, I'll be chatting with you soon and looking forward to hopefully seeing you at some of these live events coming up that I'll be at.

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 Hey, chiropractors. We're ready for another Modern Chiropractic Marketing Show with Dr. Kevin Christie, where we discuss the latest in marketing strategies, contact marketing, direct response marketing, and business development with some of the leading experts in the industry.

Kevin: Alright. Welcome to another episode of the Modern Chiropractic Marketing Show. This is your host, Dr. Kevin Christie, and today, I have an interview with a chiropractic student and his name is Grant Elliott and again, he is a tri 9 student, I believe, and he's done something that's been pretty impressive. He's grown a very large Instagram audience, even before he's graduated, and he's going to be able to leverage that and take that to wherever he ends up after he graduates and have a built-in audience and really hit the ground running, and he also dives into how he's going to monetize it outside of just getting patients. So, I really like this episode because we hammered a lot of good information on content and marketing, and how it's.. he's just leveraging Instagram to get really good content out there. [0:01:09.7] 

We break that down because I think a lot of times we think of Facebook or Instagram as really just something if we start doing, no matter what we do, it's going to be great for us. And then it ends up not being good. We end up blaming Instagram or blaming Facebook as not working, but really what's happened is you've put the cart before the horse and you just didn't have good, consistent, creative content that filled a need. So we dive into that. I got a lot out of it. I know you will. He brings a lot of energy and so, it's a nice episode, and I think you'll get some good tips to how you could potentially grow your Instagram or at least apply the principles that we talk about to some other platforms and just really getting clear on getting a content marketing strategy. So I hope you do enjoy that. Before we dive into it, I do want to mention that we had a guest blog from Dr. Corey Campbell of Motion Palpation Institute. [0:02:08.5] 

He's the Vice President, and he wrote a blog called The Evolution of The Modern Day Chiropractor, and we have been getting a lot of good feedback on that. So check out our website, ModernChiropracticMarketing.com and you can just go to the blog section, and it's the newest one that was released on July 2. So check that out, and it's just really good information and I highly recommend checking out MPI, Motion Palpation Institute, and some of the upcoming live courses they have as well as some of the online courses. If you want to be a good hands-on evaluator, assessments, and the adjustment, there's just nothing better than MPI. So, check them out. Next, I hope you come and visit me as I speak with the fine John Morrison out of Canada and we're going to dive into marketing at Forward 2019, which is in St. Louis, Missouri, September 20-22, and you can go to ForwardThinkingChiro.com to get your tickets. I highly recommend you going. [0:03:09.0] 

It's going to be a blast. Even, you know, the content you're going to get is great from people. There's some great speakers. You can check out that list. The camaraderie and the energy there is great. You're going to connect with people like me that will be speaking but we're not there just to be on stage and then leave. A lot of us are going to be there the three days, right, and we're going to be open. You're going to be able to come and chat with us - if you have questions. If you, personally, if you see me, come up and say hello and ask a question. I'm going to make the time to really try to help as many people out as I can, and I know the other speakers are going to do the same thing. So, it'll be fun. It'll be a lot of good times there. There always is. There's also, if you're a student or a young doc, there's going to be a job fair there, a preceptor fair. That's how I found my current associate. He, I found him as a preceptor at Forward KC last year, and that turned into an associateship. [0:04:06.0] 

So, check it out - ForwardThinkingChiro.com and without further ado, here is my interview with Grant Elliot. Alright. Welcome to the show, Grant. I really appreciate your time. Before we dive into the Instagram world and the things that you are doing, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Grant: Yeah. So, my name's Grant Elliot. I'm still currently a chiropractic student. Although I'm living in South Tampa, living my best life under the palm trees, I am technically a student at Logan University, which is in St. Louis, or at least a suburb of St. Louis, and I'm a trimester 9 student of 10 trimesters. So, I'm on the last leg. I can see the finish line in the distance and yeah, just hanging out in Florida now, man. It's been great.

Kevin: So let me ask you a question. Are you on a preceptor right now from Logan?

Grant: So yeah - so the last three trimesters or clinical rotations. So, technically, it's called a preceptor once you're tri 10, but it's the same thing. I'm doing my rotation out here. I'm at a local clinic close to Tampa. [0:05:09.7]

Kevin: Yeah, that's what I did. I went to Logan as well, a little bit before you, 2002, 2005, 2006, graduated December of 2005 and I did a preceptor down in Florida as well. So…

Grant: Nice.

Kevin: Yeah. It's a good way. It's a good way of getting out there and learning.

Grant: Oh, yeah.

Kevin: Where are you from originally?

Grant: So I'm originally from central Indiana. It's a city just north of Indianapolis called Carmel, Indiana.

Kevin: Yeah.

Grant: So I was there, you know my whole life until undergrad. I went to Ball State for undergrad, if anyone has heard of that, and then moved to St. Louis for grad school, obviously.

Kevin: I'm familiar with that area. I go to the NFL combine each year.

Grant: Oh - yeah, yeah.

Kevin: And then actually, a gentleman who is a trainer that I first got started with, all the NFL stuff back in 2007-2009, he actually graduated from Ball State and he had a lot of good things to stay about their program there. Yeah. So. [0:06:03.4]

Grant: That's awesome.

Kevin: So you and I first met over at Jeff Langmaid's event, and I kind of…

Grant: Yeah.

Kevin: … you know, I did a little hour, guest presentation, and you were there, and we started catching up a little bit about Instagram and you're… just a couple of things that really intrigued me was the following that you have developed on Instagram as a student and how you're able to really leverage that getting out of school. So, just tell us a little bit about what you've got going on with Instagram.

Grant: Yeah. So, a little bit of history: I've actually always enjoyed making videos of some kind in my past. I'll say my first passion is actually skateboarding. I was a little middle school skate rat with my buddies all day, and I was the filmer. So I bought a video camera and I, you know, Torrented and downloaded a free editing system and I was making all these skate videos. And then, you know, once I stopped that and I went to college, hadn’t picked it up in a while, and then just around, just kind of, just a year ago actually, I started getting a lot of questions from family, friends, people I met at the gym, whatever about like, "Hey, you know - I know you're in chiro school. [0:07:13.1] 

I know you're studying this stuff. Like what about this and what about this. And like, how should I move better," or whatever. So I was like, "Hey, you know what? Like, I used to make videos. I enjoy doing it. I'm just going to start doing that again, just with a different topic. So, at first it started with just iphone videos and I just made a few posts that I thought was really important information so that I could just send it to people. And then I kind of started doing it a little bit more - went from like once a month to maybe like, you know, once a week and then I started listening to more podcasts and I kind of realized - hey, you know what - content is obviously everything right now and it's going to be even more so the future, and I enjoy doing this. I'm just going to really make a commitment and start making Instagram videos and see what I can do with that. [0:08:04.1] 

So, I just bought a little cheap like $30 microphone to plug into my phone, started making more videos in the gym, started getting good feedback on it, and I was like, this is an amazing way to grow myself, to learn how to speak better, how to reach people better, how to build credibility, and I basically saw, you know, I don't know exactly what I'm going to do with this, but I know at this point that a good social media and content platform can drive any business, no matter what it is. And you can reach more people and help more people at the same time. So it's an absolute win-win.

Kevin: Yeah, I…

Grant: So I just rolled with it.

Kevin: …yeah, for sure. And you know, it's one of those things I talk a lot about as far as what the, what I consider the roadmap, and a big mistake a lot of people make is they focus on the distribution channel or the vehicle of getting the content out there, which say is Instagram, not to say you shouldn't do that, but they think that's going to be the end-all, be-all - "I'm going to get on Instagram and all of sudden, I'm going to have this huge following." [0:09:05.8]

Grant: Yeah, I wish.

Kevin: Yeah, yeah. What you've been doing is actually just leveraging Instagram and obviously, certain tactics and strategies we will discuss, but you've been layering on very consistent, creative content so you got, it seemed like you have gotten real clear on that, and you've done a good job of providing value and then just leveraging the distribution through Instagram to grow your audience. Would you say that's how you've done it so far?

Grant: Oh, 100%, yeah. So, basically I picked my main platform, my main funnel, so to speak, and I was like, hey, you know what? I'm enjoying doing the Instagram stuff, so I'm going to make this my #1. And then as I'm now, I'm to the point where I can actually start funneling that other places, and I'm really excited about that, now I'm just taking everyone from Instagram and distributing them to my other channels and other options and you know… So basically, I just picked, like okay, do I want to do it all on YouTube and funnel through that, or do I want to do all Instagram and funnel through that? So, 100%, I'm to the point now where I'm using Instagram heavily to build these other areas and build something greater. [0:10:12.4]

Kevin: So this is a good teaching moment for our audience a little bit, and I want to see what you're doing on that. I, you know, we talk a lot about you want to build your owned property - o-w-n-e-d - and you don’t want to be only on rented land. So, are you saying that you're potentially trying to get people from Instagram onto maybe your website, which you own, or an email list, which you own. Is that what you're trying to do?

Grant: 100%.

Kevin: Good.

Grant: Absolutely. And I know we talked about that too. So, like just around a couple of months ago, it kind of dawned on me. I was like, oh crap, like if Instagram, for some reason, eliminates tomorrow, I'm done.

Kevin: Um-hm.

Grant: So I started growing emails lists. We're currently developing a website. And I'm going to be funneling everyone to that so then I can be in control of my audience. [0:11:03.7] 

And Instagram is obviously going to be the main platform, but, yeah, I realized very quickly that I need to develop a way to own my audience so that I can control it, instead of someone else.

Kevin: Yeah, and it's kind of like if I go back, I remember in 2011, 2012, I've got a lot, I got like over 3100 Facebook business page likes and people were like, "Oh, how did you get that many?" I was like, "Well, I've been doing it for a long time." But back then, I could post something on the business page and everybody would see it. And obviously, Facebook changed their parameters and so the organic reach is almost zero, so you just spend - right now, Instagram is pretty good, or really good, and it's not costing a lot, but you know, you never know. Facebook does own it and so, and I've read recently that the same guy that's running Instagram who works for Facebook, is the guy who used to run Facebook business page and he's the one that switched a lot of the information, or the way it works. So, I wouldn't be surprised, like yeah, it could start to get expensive to reach, you know, even if you have a large audience. [0:12:03.2]

So you're preparing well, which is great, and that's one of the things that I hope our audience gets - is that it's okay to build on rented properties like Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, things of that nature, but just make sure you're doing a good job of getting them into your owned properties.

Grant: Yeah, absolutely.

Kevin: Cool. I wanted to just kind of discuss, and one of the things that stood out to me when we met in person was that you are a student and you've developed an audience, and now, you're actually going to be taking that with you and you've got - if I'm still correct - you've got a job lined up after school?

Grant: So, I have a couple of options. I definitely have opportunities.

Kevin: Yeah.

Grant: It's just - what I'm going to do.

Kevin: Would you say that this audience that you've built has given you more opportunities?

Grant: Oh, my god!

Kevin: That's what I want to touch on.

Grant: Oh, oh yeah, without a doubt. It's, I mean, it's just a, it's a huge portfolio. Right? Like, I don’t have to, you know, of course you're going to meet up and you're going to get a feel for each other, but literally, like everyone I've ever contacted, I just attach my social media info - instant credibility. [0:13:10.6] 

Like, I no longer have to convince them that I actually know something, you know - I swear I know how to work hard. They can look at what I've done with content, and they already know - "Okay, he knows something. He knows how to work hard. Like, he could be a good person to, you know, meet with."

Kevin: Yeah, and like, as a practice owner myself, and I've been everything - I've been an associate. I've been a partner. I've been an owner and I kind of get it, what's happening, is now you could graduate from school and you could go to someone like me that owns a practice and open that up and say, "Look. This is what I've got." And you could decide, you know, this is your personal preference; I'm just using examples. But, you could say you know, I want to work for someone because I need to learn still some of the business side of things, maybe want to get a little more clinical experience, but at least now, I can negotiate with that business owner, maybe a higher… let's just say a better compensation package. [0:14:08.6]

Grant: It's leverage.

Kevin: Yeah, it's leverage. So you've got that option, which is a great option. You've also got the option of where you could say to yourself, you know what - I'm going to just use this audience and open up my own practice. I feel ready to do it, and now, you would have a lot more confidence in doing it, probably a much quicker catapult to a successful practice. 

Grant: Oh, yeah.

Kevin: So, it's definitely something. I know we’ve got a lot of students that listen to this podcast. We have got a lot of younger doctors. And that's why I wanted to bring you on, because you're doing exceptional work, but it's also a unique situation, where you're still a student and you've actually got a larger audience than the vast majority of practicing chiropractors out there. So it's definitely giving you options.

Grant: Yeah. And to piggyback on something you said, if I had absolutely no content and no following and no audience at all, I would feel, you know, I'm a confident person. I know how to work hard. But I would feel legitimately, like nervous and scared for when graduation comes and you know, everyone is afraid of, okay, well, like, is everything going to go okay? [0:15:07.5]

Is the business going to fail? Am I ready to open my own? And like, I would be so nervous, but because I have all this support, essentially is how I'm going to describe it, I am way more confident that, hey, you know what - whatever route I end up taking, or whatever route I end up having to do, whether it's on my own or not, I am way more confident that it is going to be successful because of what I've built up to this point. So, I couldn’t be more happy that I've taken the time to build this, while I'm in school, before I have even graduated.

Kevin: Absolutely. So, what's your audience on Instagram at now, roughly?

Grant: So, I believe I'm at 88.3 thousand.

Kevin: Yeah, that's…

Grant: Yeah. I…

Kevin: …that's exceptional.

Grant: I should, and that's with one year. I actually started making more serious videos almost exactly one year ago. So I've almost reached 100,000 in one year. I think I'll hit 100,000 in around a month or a month and a half.

Kevin: Yeah. And if we were talking a couple of years from now, it'll be even more substantial, and it just…

Grant: I hope so. [0:16:01.8]

Kevin: Yeah. It's just the momentum is there. So you'll be at hundreds of thousands of followers. And I remember having Jacob Hardin on my podcast.

Grant: Oh, yeah.

Kevin: Yeah. And he's pretty high up there. And he gets these weird situations where he'll get a new patient from a follower that's in a different state but has a family member or a friend in his location and they refer them to him. So he gets these new patients from ways that you couldn’t even imagine 10 years ago.

Grant: Yeah - exactly. I've had people from like California and New York, even other countries, who have reached out to me and have asked me, "Hey, where's your office at? I don’t trust people in my area and I want to see you." And I'm like, well, I'm actually not practicing yet, but I'm flattered, you know. It's crazy, like people, like want to come see you because they see you, they trust you, they feel a bond with you. It's amazing.

Kevin: Yeah. And so let me ask you a question. Do you plan on - I know we talked about getting some of these people into an email and a website and stuff like that - when you practice and all that, do you still plan on being very active in Facebook and YouTube and Google and all that stuff?  [0:17:15.6]

Or are you going to just really hammer Instagram and go from there? What are your thoughts on that?

Grant: My thoughts are to basically not let up at all with the social media stuff because it's gotten me this far, and it's only going to boost my practice exponentially. So I do not plan on cutting back on media at all. Eventually outsourcing a little bit and having some other people to help me with it. Otherwise, I think I'd be sleeping about an hour and a half a night if I did that.

Kevin: Yeah. If I could make a recommendation, and I know you probably know, but a lot of times I'm also speaking to the audience listening - is that you know, with what you're doing on Instagram, you would probably would use some kind of service like, you know, to where it could be scheduled, someone else could schedule it and cross platform it for you, and do all that. Maybe shoot some longer videos and put that on YouTube and cross platform it. [0:18:09.9]

Grant: Oh, yeah.

Kevin: That is, have someone do it for you.

Grant: Yeah. My plan is for everything you just said, to be within, hopefully within a year from that.

Kevin: Good. Perfect.

Grant: That's my goal, at least.

Kevin: Alright. Cool. So, yeah - what's the name of your Instagram page?

Grant: It's called Rehab Fix. And the initial plan with those words was like, okay, well I do a lot of rehab, so like, I was trying to look up like movement stuff or like empowerment stuff, and I was thinking like, a phrase like, hey you know, every day your body should, you should get your fix of movement or whatever - like get your fix like addiction, so I was like rehab fix - get your daily fix. That kind of thing. So that's how I came up with it. But, once again, I knew that Instagram was going to be my primary platform, so I was looking specifically for names that would look good on Instagram, because I didn't want some huge, long tag. I wanted something short and concise that people could read and get instantly because Instagram is so fast. So I actually used Instagram to determine the kind of name I wanted to go for as well. [0:19:12.3]

Kevin: Okay. Now, feed or stories - what are you doing more of in Instagram or are you doing both or what's working in that regard?

Grant: Yeah, so. Feed for sure. Stories, I think, help people get more of a personal touch with you. So I try, I try to post story as much as I can. I mean, I'm at least posting, you know, three times a day on that, but like personal stories and those things, I think that those will help build a personal bond. Surely the views are just a fraction of what your feed gets, but for me, I'm posting on both of them every single day. Yeah.

Kevin: Perfect. Yeah, and that's a key ingredient, obviously - humanizing yourself is just gigantic, especially as a doctor; it goes a long way. I say that sometimes, like you want to humanize yourself, and people don’t get it. But it's just showing that you're a regular person. Right? And it's not all science speak and health speak - it's really just showcasing you and you as a person, which is great. [0:20:12.7]

Grant: Yeah.

Kevin: There's a book called Epic Content Marketing by Joe Puilizzi, and he talks about the six steps, or the six principles, of epic content marketing. And one is, and you're doing all these, which is what I want to highlight as well. As important as Instagram is, what you're really achieving is just really good content and one is you're filling a need. So there's no doubt about that. Be consistent, which you're doing. The third one is be human, which we just talked about. And so you're using stories to be human and you're using the feed to kind of give them a lot of the value. Is that correct?

Grant: That's absolutely correct. Yeah.

Kevin: Good. The next one is having a point of view. No doubt you're having a point of view and you kind of just mentioned that as far as what you're doing with Rehab Fix. Avoid sales speak, and lastly, be best of breed. And I would definitely say you're best of breed in what you're doing. So, you're essentially following that epic content, the principles, and again, just using Instagram to just blow it out of the water. [0:21:15.9]

Grant: Well, it's good to know that I'm doing that right because I never read that book.

Kevin: No, I know, and that's what's sometimes funny is like, you know, there's a lot of the theory and the principles and all these different, the schooling of it, but sometimes just inherently, you hit it and it shows and it reveals itself, and it's not like you sat down and read this like marketing book to do it. You just kind of intuitively realized what you needed to do and saw the potential on Instagram. So, kudos to you. And do you have any other overall strategy of Instagram that you're doing that you could break down a little bit for us?

Grant: Yeah. So there's some like smaller, nitty-gritty things that we might not necessarily need to get into, but…

Kevin: Yeah, sure.

Grant: … big picture things are obviously the consistency. [0:22:02.5] 

You brought that up. And initially, when I was trying to, okay, I'm going to start making more, you know, legitimate videos, I was like, okay, there's just no way I can post any more than twice a week. You know, for some people, like it depends on the platform - right - so for like YouTube, you know, two or three times a week, that's kind of plenty, and maybe similar platforms as well. But for Instagram, Instagram is very fast, very fast. People want new things all the time, and so I realized that. And I was like, okay, two to three times a week on Instagram is not going to work, and the second I started posting at least five to six days a week, my engagement literally doubled or tripled, and I was like, okay - this is what I need to do. And a lot of people out there listening might have this thought because I got asked this all the time when I was at school - people were like, Hey, Grant - like, why are you posting so much. Like, people are going to get sick of it, or you're putting out too much content - no one is going to come see you because they're going to think they have all of the answers, and you're just, you're just giving away everything that you would ever do, and that's just not - none of that is true. [0:23:11.1] 

The more, especially on Instagram, more content the better. Because not everyone who follows you is going to see it every single day. Right? I post every single day; recently, I've actually been skipping Sundays because I want a day of rest. But, you know, I post basically every single day, but I guarantee you, only maybe, well based on my views, about a fourth of my followers actually see each video, on average. So if they're, you know, only checking their feed every, you know, two or three days or whatever, they're only seeing - my video better be posted that day so that they can see it. So consistency is absolutely huge, and even if you feel like, you know, oh, this picture or this infograph or this video, it wasn't like oh, it wasn’t great, it wasn’t like polished, it wasn’t perfect - who cares. If there's any value to it at all, freaking post it and get it out there. [0:24:01.5] 

Because it's going to basically keep your channel like alive. It's going to keep you in the minds of people. It's going to keep bumping up everything. So, you got to, you got to post every single day. And kind of a piggyback off that is just overall engaging. So, if you make a post, but then you're not responding to any comments, you're not responding to any DMs, you're not engaging with anyone, not only on your page, but on other pages too, that's going to hurt you as well. Because let's think about this - you're a new doctor or a new student or whatever - you're trying to build a following. Well, if you're not finding everyone in your niche, so like for me, rehab stuff, right. So I found all the biggest, most popular rehab accounts that I agreed with what they were doing, and I turned on my post notifications. So every single time they made a post, I was one of the first comments, and you don’t like say, hey everyone, come look at my page, because you're going to deleted and that's annoying - don’t do that. You just say, hey, great video, thanks for sharing. Or hey, I really like this movement -I also do this, or this variation and I find it gets great results - something positive. [0:25:05.7] 

Something that's going to promote movement overall or promote them, but everyone that goes to that post, they're going to see your name. They're going to see you consistently. They're going to start going to your page. They're going to see you have similar content, similar niche, and they're going to start following you. So people - you have to be willing to give a lot at the beginning. So you got to comment on other people's pages. You got to respond to comments. You got to get your name out there as much as you possibly can, and that is the most important thing, and you know, that's not some magic strategy or anything - it's just putting in the time, really.

Kevin: And that really helped grow the audience?

Grant: Oh, my… oh, absolutely.

Kevin: Okay.

Grant: Absolutely. Yep. That is - if there was one thing I could advise, it would be posting every day, responding to every comment, and posting/commenting on every other big account's channel that you wish to emulate because you have got to get your name out there. Those are the things you got to do. [0:26:01.4]

Kevin: Are you doing any type of documenting experiences? I mean, obviously, you might be able to do this more when you're in private practice. But just documenting some treatment of patients or evaluations of patients, just kind of documenting?

Grant: So I was thinking about this the other day. No. I haven’t. And I wish I had because I could turn those into kind of testimonials or videos or anything like that. I have a couple of people in mind, but I was like - oh, my gosh, I got to film something with them to launch this when I graduate and stuff or before then, depending on what it was. But yeah, I was thinking about that the other day. I was like - oh, my gosh, I wish had some, like before and after videos.

Kevin: Or maybe like, I don't know if it would be a good idea for that to be some of your stories, maybe, you know? That has potential. Like I know we're even sometimes one of the patients come in that have, we have got a couple of influencer on Instagram and they've shot stories while they're in our office, so obviously they shot the story on their Instagram and tagged us in there and that was good. But we also have done some stories reverse. So maybe that's an idea as well. Right? [0:27:05.3]

Grant: Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I need to start doing that. I guess I just, I never thought about asking people … because like, you know, I've not graduated yet. I feel like it maybe would be intrusive to ask, but I should probably just start asking people, like, hey, you want to be on a video.

Kevin: How about engagement? How do you … like, okay, you get an audience of whatever - maybe it's 5000 - again, I think, I like to preface it, I don’t like to, you know, downplay what chiropractors can do, but I don’t want them to also feel like they are not doing a good job on Instagram if they don’t have 80,000 people. So like, let's say they've got 5000 or 10,000 or whatever they've got in their community - what are some strategies to keep their audience engaged?

Grant: On that particular platform?

Kevin: Yeah.

Grant: To keep them engaged, I mean, I would probably just think a general summary of what we have discussed at this point. I mean, consistency, certainly in their community, tagging …[0:28:02.0]

Kevin: Okay.

Grant: … the location, local gyms that they go to, local facilities that they go to that are related to either their services or health in any way.

Kevin: Yep.

Grant: So that people in that area can actually see those. Yeah, like I said, responding to comments, anything like that to kind of…

Kevin: How about hashtag strategy?

Grant: So, hashtags, here's what I've found - there's no golden ticket with hashtags, but it certainly is worth putting in the effort. So with any average video that I post, usually around I think 15%, sometimes 20%, of the views will come from hashtags. And I mean, if that's a 50,000-view video, then I mean, that's, I mean, that starts to become a significant number of views, a significant number of reach. So whenever I talk to people about the specifics, I always say, you know, don’t spend 20 minutes or an hour trying to come up with the absolute best hashtags because there's all this like hashtag research and stuff, and I say, from my experience doing this every single day for the last year, there's no magic pill, so to speak, with hashtags. But certainly, put in at least 10 minutes, find the right ones, use all 30 of them; don’t just use 5 and call it a day if you're trying to build. Use as many of them as you can. Use the right ones and get local locations in there too. [0:29:19.7]

Kevin: Perfect. Now the other thing I want to talk about with engagement, and I wanted to highlight is, I have met you in person, I now see you on video, I've seen your videos on Instagram. I hear the audio. You're a dynamic personality. You've got good energy to you, just naturally, even when I met you in person. So obviously, not everybody has that inherently, but that does go a long way for video engagement. What are your thoughts on that? I know it's just kind of who you are, which is great, but what are your thoughts on that aspect of things?

Grant: So I mean, ultimately, you have to do whatever you're comfortable with and you got to be who you are. Right? Here's what I will say - so, you're right - I'm kind of a high energy, off the wall kind of guy sometimes. Especially when I'm filming, for sure, I kind of like click into a zone. [0:30:06.8] 

So when I've talked with people about this, you know, I won't tell them, hey, sorry, you have got to pretend to be someone who you're not. I've never told people that, but I have, you know, said, hey, you know what, like, I understand you're a really chill person or like whatever, but if your goal is to build an audience and build a platform, then you need to look at what is the most effective for building this. And often, the most effective strategy is not being super chill, talking slow or doing whatever you're doing. So, you might have to embellish a little bit. So you don’t have to be crazy, like me or like other people, but you know, let's pick up the voice a little bit, let's talk a little bit, you know, faster maybe. Make a few jokes here and there and just try to be overall entertaining, appears someone that someone would want to hang out with or someone that someone would want to learn from. So yeah, I mean, you just got to think, this is, at the end of the day, this is entertainment. It doesn’t matter how good the information is, unfortunately, when you're growing, it comes down to value and entertainment. So you got to have a good combination of the two. [0:31:04.7]

Kevin: Yeah, and this is true. Like for myself, I'm definitely more of a laidback person through my general day. When I do public speaking or I get on video, I definitely try to double my energy and sometimes even double my energy is not enough and sometimes you've got to triple it, depending on how chill you are. But that's definitely a strategy. And you just got to look at it this way - you don’t need to change who you are, but there is a form of acting in it, and so, doubling your energy and looking into the camera and really having some of that is something you can improve on, and you can work on. And so, I highly recommend that if you're getting on video, even if you're not necessarily a chill person, but you're not super dynamic and high, high energy, and you're kind of middle of the road, you probably still are going to have to double your energy a little bit on video.

Grant: A little bit. Yeah. Yeah. I would say. I mean, there's some crazy stunts you see out there that people do at the beginning of videos to attract traffic, but it works. It works, though, you know. Like people want to see action and you got to slip in the value with it, but yeah, you got to amp it up, that's for sure. [0:32:09.4]

Kevin: Perfect. Any other thoughts on Instagram or anything that we can really take from this?

Grant: I would just say, for anyone out there, a student or not, maybe even, maybe even somebody who isn't even a student yet, maybe they're getting ready to enroll in whatever profession it is - it doesn’t even matter what profession - when Dr. Jeff Langmaid came out and spoke in St. Louis, he made the comment, "You should have started making content, you know, two weeks ago." And I'm going to say that exact same thing. As long as you're not trying to talk about things that are above and beyond and over your head and things that you actually are confident in, that you know are right, for the most part, and that it's good information, you got to start making content as soon as possible because it just compounds and compounds and compounds. And then, when you get halfway through school or at the end of school or maybe 3 to 5 years into practice, you're going to be so happy with the amount of effort that you put in before. [0:33:04.6]

So it is never too early to start making content. It doesn’t matter if you don’t have some super expensive camera or some amazing lighting system. If you have a phone, start putting information out there. Not only is it going to help people, it's going to improve healthcare, it's going to build your brand, your personal brand as well. It is only going to pay off in dividends. So, do not be intimated. You just got to start shooting and just start posting. And it's as easy as that.

Kevin: Perfect. Do you do any pre-planning at all for your content for the week or for the day or how do you do that?

Grant: So, it's kind of a stressful way, kind of unorganized. What I do is like, I'll think of ideas randomly, but I also, when I'm at the gym, I'll just look around and I'll see what some people are doing - either wrong or something they could improve on - and right then and there, I have this tab of notes in my phone, and I'll write down basically what I want the title of the video to be and what the key things I'm going to show them are. So by the time… we shoot around every 2 or 3 weeks. [0:34:02.0]

Kevin: Yeah.

Grant: Every time 2 or 3 weeks comes around, I'll have a note in my phone that has around, you know, like 20 or 25 ideas, and then I just go through each one, one by one, film it, and then just check it off as I'm going. That's essentially how I'm doing those.

Kevin: So, you're batching.

Grant: Sure, yeah. I guess so.

Kevin: It's a good thing…

Grant: Oh, I see what you're saying - yeah, yeah, yeah. Doing them in bulk and sprinkling them out. Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah. I think a mistake people make is they're kind of reactive in their content creation. It's like, I got to shoot a video, and then I got to shoot another video, and then I got to shoot another…ugghhhh… next day. Yeah, you plan it out - you just get it done and then you have it all ready in the hopper, distribute it. Then you realize, okay, I've got to have another filming day, and get it done.

Grant: Absolutely. Yeah. My goal is to film no more than once every three weeks.

Kevin: Perfect.

Grant: So that's why I try to film 20 videos every single time I film because gosh, yeah… people. … yeah… really take that advice. Film a lot of stuff at once. Don’t feel like you have to film every day. That's crazy.

Kevin: Yeah. I try to do that with the podcast as well. I mean, I don’t do a ton in one day, but I try to batch and get like over a couple week, two to three week period of time, get like six or seven episodes in so I don’t have to keep on reacting to getting episodes. So. [0:35:13.1]

Grant: Yeah. That'd be crazy stressful.

Kevin: Perfect. Well, hey, you know, I really appreciate the information. If our audience can reach out to you, what's the best way?

Grant: So, the best way to reach out to me is through my Instagram, obviously. I do check every single message. I respond to every message. It's just called Rehab Fix, exactly how it sounds. I do have a Facebook and YouTube. Those are really kind of secondary platforms. I'm not crazy active on those, and then I'm not exactly sure when this is going to launch, this podcast, but I will have my website up very soon called TheRehabFix.com and we'll be posting blogs. We'll actually have a program on there for sale as well.

Kevin: Yeah, tell us about that. Because that was the other thing I wanted to touch on. Obviously, you got an audience that you're going to be able to develop a patient base out of, but you're also going to monetize it in a different way; is that correct? [0:36:00.4]

Grant: Absolutely. Yes. So I realized probably four months ago or something. I didn't even have a website, so I hit like, I hit like 60,000 followers and I was like oh, my gosh - I don’t even have a website yet. This is crazy. So I got a website built, and obviously, I'm not licensed yet, so I don’t… I just want to make that very clear. I don’t talk about pain. I don’t talk about conditions. I don’t diagnose. I'm not doing any of that stuff. I do have my CSCS license, so I strictly talk about movement, or you know, moving better or functioning better, those things. So, essentially what I'm doing is I'm taking my Instagram audience that I've spent the last year building and as soon as I launch this website, I will be funneling everyone to the website through Instagram ads, Instagram posts, Facebook posts, Facebook ads, all of those things. And this website is basically the hub for all the blogs that I'll be writing, which is a different form of content, that I can't do that because I don’t have a website yet, so it's going to be a new form of content to draw people to it and to boost the website. And then I am creating a low back program that is specifically focused on moving better and functioning better and it's going to be subscription based, cheaper than a gym membership, and I will be able to funnel anyone who asks me questions about low back stuff, specifically, towards that. [0:37:14.5] 

So, I'm going really in-depth on it, filming for like probably 20 or 30 hours to get all that done, and that's how I'm going to begin generating, you know, income revenue before I even graduate. So, I'm pushing this really, really hard right now.

Kevin: That's awesome, man. Good stuff. You know, obviously, you made mention if you're a student, there's definitely some limitations on what you can talk about, but then it'll be fun for you once you do get your license; that'll open up a whole other level of content that you can dive into.

Grant: I can start using all the catchy words like impingement and disc herniation. I can't say any of that stuff right now, it's awwww man, it's tough. It's so tough.

Kevin: You get there. Well you know what? I really appreciate your time. I know that you and I will cross paths again. I appreciate you bringing some great information, and I'm excited for you, and I'm excited for any students who are out there that are hearing this and can take some of this information and just realize that they can start getting ahead of the game and really bring a lot to the table when they do graduate. [0:38:12.7]

Grant: Yeah, absolutely. And thank you so much for having me on, and being able to talk with me and I'm very, very grateful for the great docs I've met along my journey in chiropractic school, to be able to have these resources and build this community that has supported me so much, and is willing to help me out. So, I really appreciate your time.

Kevin: Absolutely. Thank you.

Grant: Absolutely, man. Have a good day.

Kevin: Before you go - this is Kevin, again. I want to invite you to our new website, ModernChiropracticMarketing.com. It's the same URL as before, but we completely revamped it. We have got a really well developed blog on there now where we have got guest contributors and myself putting blogs on there, at least a couple of times a month and good information. We have got the podcast on there with the links to download it, but also each show now has very well developed show notes, links, and the transcript in it, so you can get all that information there if there's anything you heard on the episode. [0:39:09.2]

It's all found right into there. So we have got a nice podcast section for it. And then also, you'll see on the homepage, we have got some other ways you can get the content from us. Obviously, there's the podcast. I really encourage you to subscribe. There's also, you can request to join the free Facebook group that is also called The Modern Chiropractic Marketing Group, and that is free, and request to join. You do have to be a chiropractor, just a couple of questions you'll answer, but a lot of good information there. So, we'd love to have you inside there. Next, we have the Chiropractic Success Academy, which you can enroll in many parts of the year. You have to join a wait list, and then we open it up; the next time it's being opened is in October of 2019, and so if you're hearing this now, just join the wait list. We'd love to have you inside there. And then lastly, there is some one-on-one coaching, which we're calling the MCM Mastery and that's because I am helping you master the principles of what we discuss in the podcast, the Facebook group, and giving you a clear path to implementing this in your practice, and ultimately, optimizing it and automating it and making your practice predictable as far as cash flow, and so there will also be a lot of business coaching and accountability. [0:40:23.6]

Presently, that is filled. I have a limited amount of people I can help out and I want to make sure that when I am helping out chiropractors one-on-one, I can give them my full attention, so I had to cap it at a certain number. But feel free to fill out the form, request. Spots do open up and so you can ask me and I'd love to have you, if there is a spot there. So check that out. And I hope you find this website, and especially the content aspect of it that we develop, very useful for you. My goal always is to provide you with as much free information as possible and then we can take it from there. If you need the dots to be connected a little bit more, that's why we have the Chiropractic Success Academy and the MCM Mastery. Talk to you next episode.

This is ThePodcastFactory.com



 Hey, chiropractors. We're ready for another Modern Chiropractic Marketing Show with Dr. Kevin Christie, where we discuss the latest in marketing strategies, contact marketing, direct response marketing, and business development with some of the leading experts in the industry.

Alright. Welcome to another episode. I appreciate you joining me again this week. Today will be a solo episode that I will break down a couple of misconceptions with marketing as a chiropractor. But before we do that, I just wanted to give you a little run down of some of the things coming up that I'm involved in, and hopefully, I'll see you at some of them. 

As I record this, it's middle of July, so coming up over the next eight months or so, I've got the Forward 2019 event in St. Louis, Missouri. I hope to see you there. You can check that out at ForwardThinkingChiro.com and get tickets. I'd love to have you there. I'm presenting with John Morrison, so we're going to really get a lot of good marketing done, get the clearly defined audience and the clearly defined messaging for you, and how to market in the trenches. So, I hope to see you there, for sure. That's one of my favorite events, and I'm really excited about that one. Last year was the first one and I presented at that one as well and just had a really good time. So hopefully, I see you there. [0:01:26.8]

Next, in early October, I will be in New Jersey for their Fall Summit on a modern marketing panel discussion on a Saturday morning there, so if you're in New Jersey, hope to see you there. I will be there for that Saturday, and then also in late October, going to be doing a virtual summit. Last year, we did two of them. This year, we're going to do one, and it's going to be a summit that I'm collaborating with the Motion Palpation Institute, so it's going to be building a better chiropractor, and it'll be half clinical videos and presentations and half marketing and business, and as it sounds, it's a virtual summit. [0:02:09.2] 

If you're unfamiliar with that, it means you'll be able to register for free and watch it online. There's a platform that we use, and so you watch it from the comfort of your own home or work, and on your laptop or phone or tablet, and so that will be in October. I will be announcing the dates on that soon. Then following that, in December, December 14th and 15th, we're going to have our next CSA Retreat, and that'll be in Palm Beach, Florida - right here in my hometown. And so that will be up to probably 40 members, smaller group, really diving deep into stuff, but also having fun, as it sounds. It's a retreat. We had a great time in Portland. It went better than we expected, and we'll be doing two a year - East Coast, West Coast - and so this one will be Palm Beach, Florida in the winter - hard to beat especially if you're in the colder climates that time of year. So hopefully see you there. [0:03:01.5]

And then lastly on my list presently is going to be Parker Vegas again. I was asked to speak again there, so I'll be there in February, and that was just an amazing event this past year. So hopefully you join us there again, so check that out. But so this is just some of the things I've got coming up. I hope to see you. Come up to me and chat. I just like getting out there. It's fun. And try to help out as much as I can and vice versa. I get a lot of good information from talking to you out in the field there and be able to see what the struggles and successes and the excitements in the future are of our profession. So, hopefully, I will see you out there on the road.

Alright. So let's chat today, and the title of today, or the topic of today, today's episode, or this week's episode is the fact that you don’t have to be a celebrity. Alright? You don’t have to be a celebrity in your marketing. I think that's something that we struggle with where we don’t launch our YouTube because we don’t think we're going to be the famous chiropractor that's on there, and you don’t think it's worthwhile, or we don’t get traction with Instagram because we're not up to 100,000 followers and stuff like that. [0:04:14.0]

Yeah, on this podcast, I've had influencers. I've had people that are dominating all the different types of distribution channels out there, and they're doing very good things with it, and it is building their practice. And so, if you can make that happen, then great. There are a lot of things that have to happen for you to do it, you know. I've interviewed some people that are killing it on Instagram. I've interviewed a couple of docs who are killing it on YouTube, or they're doing amazing things on Facebook, or they happen to be a great writer and they've written books and that's done really well for them. Right? So there are a lot of different things that can happen, but I don’t, I don’t want you to assume that's going to happen for you. Again, we want to do everything we can to happen. It'd be great if it does, but I don’t want you to assume that's what's going to happen for you, and I also don’t want that to be the measuring stick of having successful marketing for your practice. Okay? [0:05:19.8] 

I think there's a couple ways of going about this, and there's probably more, but just for the sake of this episode, you know, you can definitely hit a home, a grand slam, and end up having 100,000 Instagram followers and get 15 new patients a month from Instagram. Right? That can happen, and that's great, or again, YouTube and things like that. So, that's one way, and then the other way is just having a very well-rounded marketing strategy for your practice and being consistent with that in the different types of distribution channels and over time, your practice is going to have a very well-rounded referral system. Right? [0:06:06.9] 

And I would say that's what's happened for me in my private practice is that I've done, I've been consistent and I've utilized different strategy.. or you know, I should say one strategy - content marketing, but through different distribution channels, and so at the end of the month, if we get 35 new patients that come in, I can look at it and say 10 came from Google, 10 came from referrals, five came from, like let's say Facebook, two came from Yelp, one came from a - what's the other one - I got one recently that was - oh, we got a Bing one. Right? Like if you still remember that - we got one from Bing. Maybe you get a couple from insurance plans. I'm active release technique certified, so maybe I get from that, get a couple of personal injury ones from referrals from the attorneys. [0:07:01.9] 

Got a couple from MDs and so, it's just a well-rounded approach to where each month, I've got a predictable amount of new patients and my marketing is consistent on the whole patient lifecycle, which is that during, after and also the before unit of marketing and so now, I've got this, you know, fully involved marketing strategy happening to where I'm targeting new patients, I'm trying to optimize patient experience, and I'm staying top of mind from past patients. So what that then does is it increases my new patients, but it also increases my patient retention. Okay? If you have a really good patient experience and you use content during that, you're going to increase your retention of those patients. They're going to follow their treatment plans at a higher rate. And then third, by focusing on that after unit marketing and everything, you're going to increase your patient reactivations. 

So that's a really well-balanced practice and you're not so reliant on new patients. Obviously, we need new patients, but because you're getting a good amount of reactivations, a good amount of new patients and they're sticking around for their treatment plans at a higher rate, that's how you have long-term sustainability and not having to get that sugar high of new patients. [0:08:19.1] 

Like, I need to run a funnel or I need to go and do a screening and get 15 new patients in here or it's going to be a bad month. Right? And that has historically happened in our profession, unfortunately. 

So, that's the path I think most chiropractors are going to succeed with. You know, there's going to be outliers, people just dominating one channel. We'll just call it that - right - just one channel. They're going to dominate that and it's going to really help fuel their practice and that's great. But let's just assume that's not going to be you. Definitely do the things to try to do that, but just don’t make that as like your determination if you're doing good marketing. Okay?  [0:09:01.6]

And so that's the essence of what I wanted to talk about today is that you don’t have to be a celebrity on Instagram or YouTube or Facebook or whatever or the next thing that comes around, but what you can do is have a very well-developed marketing strategy, and that's why I developed the marketing roadmap, and that is the fuel - right? That's your contact marketing. That's the fuel of your marketing, and part of that contact marketing is really having a clearly defined audience, knowing who you're talking about and we have had an episode on psychographics. We had an episode on x - y axis positioning. That's all part of that good content marketing strategy, which is the fuel. Then we have got the GPS, which is the messaging, you know, where we're going to get to, and you got to get really clear on your messaging. And that’s a lot of that story brand stuff, but it's even more than just that, but you know, getting real clear with that. [0:10:00.5]

That clearly defined message has to be congruent with that clearly defined audience; that's huge. Okay? So that's like the real building blocks of the marketing. And then, you can go to the vehicle, which is the next part of the roadmap and that's going to be your distribution channel. It's the vehicle to get your clearly defined message out with your content and that's going to be things like Facebook and Google and YouTube, email, direct mail, blogging, networking, public speaking, getting out there - right - like that's going to be the distribution channels of the content and obviously, the message. And lastly, is the destination. That's your planning and having a plan and having the quarterly marketing plan that we discussed, having the editorial calendar written out. You know, it's becoming late July now as I record this and so, at late July, I'm going to plan out my editorial calendar for August, which is going to include the topics I'm going to discuss and these are the emails that are going to go out. [0:11:01.6] 

This is the blog I'm going to write. These are the videos I'm going to shoot. This is the Instagram strategy. Right? So you just get ahead of it and you're not reactive. You're proactive with it and then you apply that through those different distribution channels and you've got a really well-rounded approach that is going to bring in results without having to be a celebrity or you know, catching fire and having just this huge following of people on a platform. Again, I'd love for that to happen for you, but it's not going to happen for everybody and it's not the measuring stick of having a successful marketing plan for your practice, okay? 

And so that's what I want you to just really take home. It's just like the mindset. It's like you're going to consistently create good content. You're going to get really clear on your audience and your messaging. You're going to optimize your Google, and optimize your Facebook business page, and you're going to run Facebook ads, you know, like with strategy. [0:12:04.8] 

Like, you're going to do that stuff and it's all going to work together to have a very predictable practice, and the growth that you want. You're just going to have to stay in action, and I think the planning part of it is a big aspect of that, so. 

Today's going to be short and sweet. I really just wanted to get that out there because I've talked to a lot of chiropractors recently. I've had some on the show that are, you know, doing really well with certain channels, and I just wanted to get that out there that, you know, you can have a great marketing plan without being a celebrity chiropractor. If you can get it done, great. It does help. But again, being a celebrity chiropractor is not for everybody. It depends on your personality, your desires and things of that nature. So, I hope this was helpful. It's a take home point that hopefully will get you motivated to getting a well-rounded marketing approach. 

Thanks for tuning in today. Please be sure to check our redesigned website at www.ModernChiropracticMarketing.com. Stay up-to-date with our blog, where content is regularly added by Kevin and guest contributors. You can also access our library of podcast episodes there. Go to www.ModernChiropracticMarketing.com and subscribe to the podcast today.

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 Hey, chiropractors. We're ready for another Modern Chiropractic Marketing Show with Dr. Kevin Christie, where we discuss the latest in marketing strategies, contact marketing, direct response marketing, and business development with some of the leading experts in the industry.

Alright. Welcome to another episode of Modern Chiropractic Marketing Show. This is your host, Dr. Kevin Christie, and today I've got an interview with none other than Dr. Jeff Langmaid. This isn't the first time he's been on this podcast, and today, we actually dive really deep into three key aspects of email marketing, and there's just a lot of good information that he brought to this episode. I really hope you enjoy it. One of the things we talk about is that we just don’t think a lot of chiropractors are doing email. We really can't stress it enough. It's not as hard as you think it is. It's not as intrusive as you may think it is. It's super rewarding, even if your open rates start to go down and things of that nature. [0:01:04.7] 

There's going to be a few roadblocks that are maybe preventing you from doing it, but you can do it. It's not that hard and it's going to be one of the most rewarding aspects of marketing you can do for your practice. So we dive into that. Before we do, I want to make mention of something I'm really excited about. You know, we had this CSA retreat in Portland back in June. We are doing another one. We are going to a couple a year. This next one is going to be in Palm Beach. I have none of the information set up on any type of place to sign up. All I want you to do right now is to mark off your calendar for December 14 and 15. You can get in on a Friday, which is 13, if you'd like, but put that on your calendar. It's the CSA Retreat Palm Beach, we have got the venue picked out, and we have got some of the retreat aspect of things. We have got the speakers. We have got John Morrison and Jeff Langmaid, your episode guest today, and so they're going to be going Bobby Maybee, and myself. [0:02:08.4] 

So it'll be the four of us providing you with a ton of information, but we're also going to have a lot of fun. So just for right now, put it on your calendar. Over the next month or so, we're going to, you know, we'll give you the information that you can actually register, but sign up for that, whether you're a CSA Member or not, there will be a discount for CSA members. That's going to be CSA Retreat Palm Beach, again, December 14 and 15, and I'd love to see you there. 

The next thing I want to see you at, you better be at, is the Forward 2019 Rise Up will be at my alma mater, Logan University in St. Louis. And I'll be speaking there, again with John Morrison, so him and I are actually speaking in New Jersey in October again, so it's like we're attached at the hip now, which I don’t mind. We mesh well. We work together well. We have been doing a lot of stuff together and it's always enjoyable. But Forward 2019, that's going to be at ForwardThinkingChiro.com. You can register there. That'll be September 20 through 22. [0:03:08.9] 

I will be there. Hopefully, you can run into me. We can chat. I'd like to hear what you've got going on. If you've got any questions, I'm going to be available, so make sure you join that. It's going to be a great, great show. Tons of, you know, Greg Cook and other amazing speakers are going to be there, so join us there. So again, CSA Retreat Palm Beach in December. We have got the Forward Thinking Chiro group is putting on again. This is the second time they've done it. Last year was an amazing success in KC. This year, it's St. Louis in September, so I hope to see you at both of those events. Alright. Without further ado, here's my interview with Dr. Jeff Langmaid. 

Kevin: Alright. Welcome, Jeff. I appreciate your time again. You've been on the show before. You've been on the other podcast I used to have, the Modern Desk Jockey. We have obviously spoken at the same places, hung out for dinners and recently I was at your live event but just, I want to thank you for getting on the show again. I know your time is valuable and you're busy, and you just came from California, so thanks for joining us. [0:04:07.4]

Jeff: You got it. Happy to be here. Always happy to chat and connect.

Kevin: Yeah. Definitely. So what's new in your world?

Jeff: Good question. So, yeah, I just flew back from California. I was out there actually visiting Titleist Performance Institute in So Cal, so I was down there with Greg Rose. He gave a tour to the facility and a mutual friend of ours, Josh Satterlee, and we out there hanging out and learning about what they're up to at TPI. Then I hopped up to Northern California to talk a little Smart Chiropractor with my business partner out there and got some exciting things, you know, as far as that product is concerned. It really helped out to see them market their practice ultimately. So, a lot of good stuff. A little bit of learning, a little bit of strategy and business and a little bit of fun mixed in. So good trip overall. 

Kevin: I didn't know you were a golf guy.

Jeff: I am not. That's a good question. I am the worst golfer. Like, Charles Barkley, he is like Tiger Woods compared to what I can do. Like, I am the worst golfer ever but I'm really interested in what they're up to because they also have spun off OnBaseU in the baseball world and racket in the tennis world. It's kind of all under the same umbrella of how they utilize their systems and processes and educational programs. I just respect what they've done. So while I am the opposite of a golf guy, doesn’t mean that I don’t respect those who are. [0:05:23.2]

Kevin: Yeah, yeah. I'm actually certified through TPI all the way through the medical track and been heavily involved in it. It was something for me, early on, actually I started doing that when I started following Greg Rose when he was at Advantage Golf in Maryland, and then he did TPI, and I started going to that. It's just been, for me it was huge. I've done a lot with golfers and that was the real baseline for me, the knowledge. Great stuff.

Jeff: Yeah, there's so much opportunity, and that's really what precipitated it as well. Not only do I respect what they've done in terms of education, but the opportunities that are presented to chiropractors in what I'll call "the sports world" and in the way that they're doing it are super interesting to me. So anytime I get the … and it's outside of my typical world … so any exposure to that is all good as far as I'm concerned. It is a lot of learning because I definitely don’t know it all when I step into that arena. [0:06:14.6]

Kevin: Yeah. You know, it's interesting too, from like a practice-building standpoint, you know, we, I think sometimes we run into these scenarios where these docs get all these certifications and they want to put all these letters behind their names and all that. And I get it - it's not about, for some people, it's about the letters behind the name, but for others, it's just trying to learn and really become the best provider that you can. And if you're going to try to position yourself in the community as something, right, like I know a lot of people have asked me how did I get where I did with golfers, and I told them, it's really, for me, it was the combination of a couple of certifications. One was Active Release Technique definitely helped me out, but two was TPI and kind of marrying those two things together positioned me in a way at a time, this was back in 06, 07, to where I was a unique combination of TPI and ART. [0:07:05.1] 

There's probably a lot more of us around now, but it got me opportunities that I may not have had without that combination of training and knowledge, but also yeah, the letters behind the name or at least people finding me on the TPI site and things like that.

Jeff: Yeah, you bring up a great point because I think it's really about the practical application. It's, you know, I jokingly and I will, full take behind the Emperor's Clothes here - I don’t have any additional letters after my name, so it's easy for me to say, but it's like I'll look at some docs', you know, websites and there's letters and I'm like, if I don’t know what the damn letters mean, there is a zero percent chance. So all it looks like is you're kind of, it's not shining you in a great light, let's put it that way. If I, as a practicing doctor, I like to think I have my finger on the pulse, don’t even know what some of this stuff means, it's outrageous. But I think that you brought up some very interesting things with ART and I think TPI is doing a great job as well, is that it's the practical application of it and it's, what are those… like ART, for instance - I'm not ART certified but I've seen them do a very good job marketing that brand, where if you have 17 diplomates through a subset organization that nobody's ever heard of…[ 0:08:16.4] 

Okay, if you just love the knowledge, awesome, all for it, be the best provider, be the best practitioner you can be, that is great. But if you think that's going to turn into marketing, you need to explore that before the education process, not try to do it afterward because some of these organizations are 20 times farther along in their brand identity than others, and it's not always about how expensive it is and it's not always about, it's actually quite inversely many times, how many hours it is. You know.

Kevin: No. You're right, absolutely. And you said there are some heavy hitters out there. I remember a funny story with ART, being certified. I was probably one of three in South Florida back in 05, 06, 07 and I was getting a lot of people that would travel and then I remember Tim Ferriss had, he released his 4-Hour Body and he talked about ART in the book, which was huge, and I remember getting these patients referred to us. [0:09:09.2] 

They would find us on the ART provider site because it was on the book, and I was like, this is great, you know. So ART has had a lot of weight. Obviously, TPI, there's a few others. I think Graston does an okay job, like I get some. I mean, it might be like three or four a year, but not a lot, and then there's other ones like, you know, I was one of the dumbasses that got certified in Kinesio Tape. I remember back in like, I think it was 2007, I got certified and then it was like a month later you started finding all the tape in the running stores and Target and all this. I was like, oh so I guess anybody could do the taping. So but like, I never got a referral from Kinesio Tape on it, but taping has been really good for my clinical outcome. So you're going to get some things that are going to help you out clinical outcome wise only, and then some that are going to help you out clinical outcome but also potentially referrals and word of mouth. So yeah, it's, you know. Know what you're getting into. [0:10:05.1]

Jeff: Both are cool. I think it's just a matter of being exactly, as you said kind of open and probably doing more investigation where letters don’t equal patients, but there are some that can help that along a heck of a lot more than others. So it depends on - I think it also depends upon what kind of doc you are and where you are in your practice. If you're really trying to grow actively and you feel great clinically, well you know, you can probably spend that time and energy elsewhere. But if you're really, you know, educationally hungry, so to speak and looking to get into a network of specific people, sometimes those couple of letters can make a world of difference in terms of access. So, I think it's just about probably, many docs I think probably, just being a little more clearer up front at what their goals are, and then you can probably make better - I assume you can make better decisions and what I've witnessed is that you can make better decisions on how you execute it.

Kevin: Well you mentioned something too, real quick, you said "network," and I think that's another thing that happens is the network effect of so, for me, when I got through the early stages of TPI, I got really involved in TPI, I got to the point where some of the other high level TPI guys that were - whether they were fitness or golf pros or other doctors, they knew who I was and they knew I was in South Florida, and so those people became a referral network for me, and that's how I even… [0:11:18.2] 

In 2011, I actually traveled on the PGA tour with some golfers and I never would have got that without the TPI, and it wasn’t even necessarily the letters behind my name, it was the network I had built of TPI providers and one of those providers reached out to me and so that's sometimes you get… I know like with Motion Palpation Institute, I get referrals from other MPI docs because people are looking for that. So sometimes, you can build a network of likeminded certified folks too. So that's another thing to consider.

Jeff: Yeah. It's like prequalifying, right. Like if I was trying to do some sort of sports chiropractic and golf right now, I probably would have a hard time getting the caddy at the Putt Putt. You know, I have no experience, no network in it, you know… But, as you said, when you start to open up, you can take, instead of one step, you can take a 10-step jump. Right? In other words, instead of having to necessarily just slog through, you can accelerate the pace at which you treat higher end individuals and work with higher end individuals by being able to open up the network. It's all relationships. [0:12:16.2]

Kevin: Yeah. Absolutely. It is relationships. And speaking of which, I've enjoyed our relationship over the last few years, and I wanted to thank you, again, for having me over at your live event in Tampa. I was there for Sunday. I missed Saturday, but I looked through the outline of stuff that you had, and it was just amazing content and you mentioned early, too, it was about the Smart Chiropractor. I want to touch on a topic within that kind of covers what you discussed heavily at your event and also what you're doing with the Smart Chiropractor, but email. Email automation, email patients - it's something that I have always harped on. I, you'll be surprised, and I know, I shouldn’t say "you"… the audience will be surprised with how few chiropractors are actually emailing their patients. Can we talk about that topic a little bit? [0:13:02.9]

Jeff: Yeah. Like nobody is.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jeff: It's kind of… yeah. I mean, there's a lot to this. Right? So statistically, we know 90% of people open their email once a day, 50% open more than 10 times a day. So, yes, while open rates have dropped, it still is something that is, I mean just look at what you do, what, you know, if you are listening, how many times do you open your email up a day? A lot. We all do. Right? So it's a great place to be. It's also a great place to reinforce messaging. So what we have seen - we literally look at three aspects of email as the most important. Number one is onboarding new patients. When they come in, are you addressing fears and concerns, reiterating your care or treatment plan, you know, just reducing friction. Right? It's nervous to being a new doctor and they come in to see you for, you know, a half hour and 23-1/2 hours each day until the next day they're in, they're left to their own devices. Touch them. They reached out. They want you. They chose you. They came in. Onboarding patients in a way that makes people feel comfortable and confident, #1. I'm happy to dive down any of these, but I'll kind of just say all three. [0:14:05.5]

Kevin: Yeah.

Jeff: The second aspect is long-term drip. So what I mean by that is all the inactive patients, think about how many patient records you have. If you're a new doc, it might be 100 or 200. A seasoned doc could have up to thousands of people in their database, and it's like, how often are you touching them. And here's the clincher on that - it's not about saying "Fire sale! Come in tomorrow" every week or "Hey, Insert Scammy Title Here." It's about being a trusted advisor and staying top of mind. So when the patient that already knows, trusts, and likes you is ready to come back in or they have a question about chiropractic, you don’t have to compete on an ad. You're not competing from scratch. They will remember you because you have reached out and built a relationship consistently throughout time. So patient reactivations is huge. I like to qualify what I mean by that. It's not about being scammy or tricky. It's about being actually what they want, which is a trusted health advisor, long term, who is available. And then #3 is events and promotions. So many docs out there, you know, they show up either to a place, maybe a race, and it's like, "Well, I hope people walk by my booth." That's a crappy way to do it. [0:15:03.6] 

Or it's like you're trying to do something in-house and you can't get people to show up or it's super arduous. How the heck are you not promoting your events online or off line, through your email list? It's the most valuable asset every chiropractor has, potentially, besides the building that they own, and nobody utilizes it and it's absolutely mind blowing. 

Kevin: Well, it's like I interviewed Crystal from Progressive Practice Sales and we talked about having a marketing plan and being able to show up to the table if you want to sell your practice. You said, you know, being valuable. Obviously owning your own building is huge. That's great. But we talked about it, it's like obviously you got to come to the table with your financials if you're going to sell, but if you also came to the table with this well-outlined marketing strategy and include this well-developed email list of thousands and a history of emailing them, that's valuable. That's worth something.

Jeff: Let me, and I'm going to flip, let me flip that a different direction that's just as relevant. Think about if you're a doc in practice right now or if you are going to, you're like a new doctor you're just about to graduate. So I'm going to be the doc who owns the practice. [0:16:07.5]

Kevin: Okay.

Jeff: I am going to look for an associate. I own this practice. I'm growing. I'm expanding. I'm looking for an associate. I need to free up a little bit more of my time. Somebody comes in and they're like, "I'm a great clinical doc. I can't wait to get started. I cannot wait to move to the area." Cool. And you meet them, you like them - I'm very over simplifying this. The next person walks in, "I'm a great clinical doc. I can't wait to move to the area and I have developed an email list of 5000 people that I communicate with each and every week, and here are the open rates and the click through rates, and they're waiting to see where I'm going to begin to practice." Who do you want to bring into your - if you're the doc with that list, leverage - or you're the doc who is looking to hire an associate, think about the opportunity that you have to build your team through that. So ultimately and then the terminal point is you should darn well be doing it yourself. 

Kevin: Yeah, absolutely. So let's go down a couple of those paths that you talked about. You know, the first one you mentioned, let's touch on that a bit for me. [0:17:02.3]

Jeff: Yeah. So onboarding new patients. When somebody comes in to the practice, in my opinion, it's exceptionally important those first few visits to stay in good communication. I mean this from a retention standpoint, but not like, I'm trying to get to 40 PVA standpoint. No, I mean it in terms of those first few visits are when the highest percentage of drop offs happen. Drop offs typically don’t happen because they've completed their plan and they're 100% healed within one to two visits. Or that they are having a bad result. It's often due to a friction point or a miscommunication. I need to call and reschedule, but I don’t know who to call. I, you know, just touching people and letting them know, hey, I'm glad you're here. I am glad you are, you know, a part of our health community, and we are looking to do great things as an intro, and then getting people engaged. Right? Send them an email a day or two later - "Hey, on our Facebook page, we post positive health content all the time. It really helps people out," you know, those tips, you know those tips and strategies will help you get better. [0:18:01.4] 

It'll progress you better through what you do in the office. So then you start to build that, you know, it helps to drive your social channels and then you're following up by saying, "Hey, here's a few frequently asked questions that many new patients in our practice might have" and just outline them. Just ask your front desk, "What do you get question… what are the same questions you get all day, every day?" You should be positively talking about that and then leading into, you know, obviously at the end of the first week, potentially saying, you know, "Hope you're having great progress and here's what we expect moving forward." But just touching people, let them know that you are a real person and giving them the opportunity to interact with you, not just in that couple minutes that you're face to face in the office is just so, so huge in our rapport, in our trust, for everything.

Kevin: No, I agree. And you know, you know that term "cursive knowledge?"

Jeff: Yeah, yeah.

Kevin: Where it's like, where it feels like sometimes I don’t say things because I know like, oh, I've said this 100 times or I assume people know it, but it's that whole thing that I talk about with the before, during and after units of marketing and email onboarding sequence is a phenomenal way for that during unit, that patient experience as far as getting content out there, which like you said, is going to increase your patient retention, and it's just one of the best things you can do for it. [0:19:16.8] 

And I don’t see many chiropractors doing it, unfortunately. It's frustrating because they're not doing email in general, and so obviously, they're, not a lot of them are doing automation.

Jeff: Right. Yeah.

Kevin: Or the onboarding sequence of it. So that's something that I highly recommend as well.

Jeff: Yeah and I understand that technology is challenging. I mean, that's, you know, sort of I have this slide where it's like, you know, the guy's like hair is like blown out and everything when you like … and so I get like that feeling of you might, maybe you have Aweber or Mail Chimp, Constant Contact, whatever. They're all very similar. And you open it up and you're just like, oh my gosh, this is like a different language. I have no… like, I get that. But that doesn’t negate the fact that the skill of that, if you don’t want to, if you don’t have the time and you don’t want to learn, great. But there's plenty of people out there that can help you do that or you bring it in house and do it yourself. [0:20:04.6] 

But it doesn’t mean that you ignore it. And you know, being able to reach out to people consistently - again, these people - think about somebody that comes in to a chiropractic office - it's less than the majority. It's less, I think it's less than 10%. I know everybody says 15% utilization; I think it's less than 10 in terms of how many people come in. So not many people. Quite often, they're scared and apprehensive and then they're like deer in headlights when they're in the office itself. That's the experience. So, you know, give that experience some lift, you know, by touching them outside. The other thing it helps with is so many chiropractors go through staffing issues, which churning through new people at their front desk or new marketing people. Now you don’t know what is being said at your front desk. You're training people up all the time. You have an email automation for onboarding new patients? That's like the best staff member you ever had in your life because you control it. You do it one time and even if things change in the office a little bit, you still have a very direct line of communication with the patient where you know what's being said each and every email that goes out, which is so, so important. [0:21:02.0]

Kevin: It is, and I, you know, I wanted to ask a question. Do you find like a lot of chiropractors get bogged down too with some of the analytics of email? And a personal experience - I started emailing my patients in 2014. I opened my practice in 2010 and so I was a little bit slow to it as well, and I started doing it, and I remember looking, I was like, when I first started emailing, it was getting really good open rates and then it starts, you know, it dwindles down and things like that. Or I would look at the list of people who unsubscribed and like, shit, I can't believe Bob unsubscribed - like, I thought Bob liked me. And it had nothing to do with Bob not liking me, right. But do you find that sometimes is a road block for people?

Jeff: Yeah, I mean, no doubt about it. I mean I think sometimes it's easy to look at things and say, "Is that being effective? Is that not" and you know, you see something, you know, you see a friend unsubscribe and it's like, oh, I can tell you it's hard not to take it personally. Or you're like, I have 100 emails that means like I have 100 email addresses. I pop them all in. Wait, 20 people opened and 5 people clicked? But it's like, that's okay. [0:22:05.1] 

Like email is a, you know, you want… you want to, as the doctor sending it, have high quality, but your send should be high quantity because that's the way it goes. And we all… again, think about yourself. You probably cruise through, you know, as a listener and you, Kevin, and myself as well, there's plenty of like channels, people things that I love and like, you know, like I'll delete. I see the headline. It's just like not something I'm interested in that day. It doesn’t mean I didn't like the brand or I don’t want to have the information, but like then they send something to me a couple of days later or a week later, and I'm like, oh cool, like right on. So it's really about a foundation. It's building brand, and that's the difference between emailing as brand building and emailing as sales. You might be able to spring in a little bit of a special event, so to speak, every once in a while, like a, I don't know, if you sell physical goods, you might be able to sprinkle in a little bit of sales in there every once in a while, but the bottom line is you should be thinking about your email as brand building. [0:23:02.2] 

That is where you are able to really stretch your legs as a brand, and over time as we get into the drip sequence or the weekly email or whatever, that's where you're able to really show expertise, show things that you do that impact the lives of people in your community, and there's just an infinitely blue ocean, as far as that's concerned.

Kevin: Yeah, definitely. And you know, for me as far as like numbers, you know, the way I look at it is I looked recently, I think a little over 6000 emails have gone into my Mail Chimp for my practice.

Jeff: Cool.

Kevin: We have been open since 2010. And then between two things, between unsubscribed and then I also did a, I do occasional kind of cleansing of my list, and for the audience out there, I know you know this, but you know, you can go in and what I did was like all the people that haven't opened up an email in the last 50, I was like you know what, I want to get a little bit more accurate. So I didn't like completely delete them, but when I sent out the emails, it doesn’t go to anybody that hasn’t opened up the last 50. [0:24:03.8] 

So I get a little bit better reading of what my actual open rate is, especially now with, you know, Gmail and all that where a lot of these are just going right into promotional folders and such. We're down to probably; I think we're at like 3300 emails now as far as my practice. So we have obviously sloughed off quite a bit, but when I send out an email now, I get at least 600-800 people, depending on the email, that actually open it and that's, like our… okay Mail Chimp costs me $50 now a month because of the numbers that I have. So it costs me 50. For some of these practices with smaller lists, it's free. And so for $50, I got 650, 700 people opening up an email. That's a lot fricking cheaper than running any other type of paid ads.

Jeff: Yep. And it can - the goal is too to be able to stay on top of mind. So if we look at statistically that, and we'll use the bottom of the pyramid, the easiest stuff - we can do a lot more than this, believe me. Low back pain. 90% of people have back pain at some point in their life. Point prevalence is 30%. [0:25:10.7] 

For every 100 people that you have on your list, no matter where you are, no matter who you are, if they're an alive, human being, 30 of them have back pain right now. So you start to do this and this is where, what we have seen, and we have been, you know, I've sent millions of emails personally. There's, Jim, if you're listening, you’ve unsubscribed to me. There's many people…you know, there's probably people listening that have unsubscribed emails. But what we have seen is that with some of the docs that we have worked with, we have seen lists as little - it's like results may vary and all this kind of stuff, right. But we have seen lists as little as 400, you know, be able to stimulate a couple of reactivations on a single send. Now you get into like, obviously, it's like, you know, our goal is to write great copy. Write good emails, have good headlines, have a little call to action that's not scammy but that's empowering to the patient. Then you get into like the technical aspects of really getting what I'll call "real results," but the bottom line is you should be touching those people because they are the gold mine. [0:26:06.6] 

They are in the best way, not in like a, oh, I'm hardcore business, but meaning they love you. They know, trust and like you. You probably, if asked any chiropractor, everybody I talk to, "Do you get 90% success in your clinic?" Everybody says, "Yes," which is the best thing. Like, if you give somebody a pill, it's like 50/50. We have like this unbelievably awesome service. People that come in to see us, there's high patient satisfaction and we have to, by nature, typically most of us, direct market to the consumer. Yet, we don’t use email. It's like, what? There is something missing from this equation.

Kevin: It is. And so, let's dive into the email drip. What are some of your thoughts on that?

Jeff: Yeah. So, what we have seen through, you know, from the tech and entrepreneurial industry and mixing it with the healthcare industry is that touching people one time a week seems to be a good cadence, where you're not killing them, you're not overwhelming them, but somebody goes onto your email list. They might get more than that when they onboard, right, so we have about six emails, let's say, in 15 days. [0:27:03.3] 

Because you're touching them a lot , you're going to be seeing them the most frequently. But after that, everybody, including the inactive patients, go to one time a week forever unless they unsubscribe or whatever the case may be. So what that email is is what we call "research that matters," which all that means is like give them something that's of interest to them, one time per week. Hey, you know, here's… and make sure you frame it in a way that has a nice headline, that you have a little bit of an explanation, and then there's a call to action. So if it is - I'll give you an example - I use this example a lot but it's an easy one - "Is your arm pain coming from your neck?" Pretty good subject line, you know, and so anybody that has that symptom is going to open it up, and then you just dive in. Hey, you know, just simple in the email. Don’t overcomplicate it. Is your arm pain coming from your neck? A lot of people don’t realize you know the discs and nerves in their neck, you know, you have a disc bulge or herniation or a compression, it can cause pain down your arm. If you or someone you know, you know, has been challenged with this, don’t hesitate to give us a call today. Super, super simple, and that is stimulating. It is interesting and that was very simplistic version. And then I'll give one more advanced tip. [0:28:07.0]

Kevin: Okay.

Jeff: The beautiful part about it is if you tease it in the email, so in other words you made it as simple as I just said, but you say, "Do you want to"… you know, "Click here for the video of three stretches you can do" or Click here for our handout that gives you three stretches you can do." You know, now you start to get people that are what we call segmented right there, really raising their hand. They're, you know they have that problem if they've clicked through and you can drive traffic back to your website or your YouTube channel. We could get into the weeds on this like crazy…

Kevin: Oh, yeah.

Jeff: But the bottom line is email information that matters or provides benefit to the people in your community weekly, but make sure that you do have something in there that is a call to action. It doesn’t need to be sale. It doesn't need to be come in today or you'll die tomorrow. You know, that's obnoxious. Just if you or someone you know is challenged with this, or if you'd like to learn more or visit our upcoming class, click here and let us know or give us a call and most phones, right, you click the button that has the telephone number, and it will call right there. Super easy. [0:29:05.7]

Kevin: Yeah, our bottom of our emails have, we have the online scheduler as well so you click the button and schedule online or they can, like you said, on their phone, most of these people reading it on their phone click the phone number, call, and I've had many patients tell me, it's like, yeah, I just, you know, when I need to schedule, I just find the last email you sent me and I do that.

Jeff: That's awesome.

Kevin: So, and then the other thing too I think people don’t put enough credence into and it's definitely not perfect, but even if they don’t open up your email, it doesn’t mean they're not seeing the headline and it doesn't mean they're not, you're not getting that top of mind awareness. They're seeing it from you and maybe they don’t click on it because maybe the headline didn't really, you know, intrigue them or whatever, but they still know you exist. 

Jeff: And you can almost think about this in terms of your Facebook page, right. You know, many people put out a Facebook post and they have a couple of hundred people following their practice page, maybe a couple thousand and like two people engage, and it's like, ohhh, shot to the heart, you know. There's an aspect to that that might be the content, don’t get me wrong, but there is also, there is benefit even if somebody doesn’t click like, share, or comment that you are staying, again, in front of them, top of mind, and I couldn't agree with you more, Kevin. [0:30:18.1] 

The same thing holds true - it they're seeing your brand in a way that's professional, in a way that's nice and clean, in a way that's systematic, it shows what type of doc you are. And that, you know, we, and that's, that goes a heck of a long way even if they're not engaging with every single thing and loving every single thing, that you can see it doesn’t mean it's not having impact.

Kevin: Absolutely. And I want to go into the next, the third part, and I actually just pulled out a book because I've used this analogy quite a bit, and I want to actually give her credit for it. I've always mentioned like, you know, there's this book and this woman mentioned it, but it's Kim Walsh Phillips. She cowrote a book with Dan Kennedy on direct response social media marketing and the analogy she gives is she wants your content to be 85% PBS and 15% QVC, and so it's definitely okay to sell, it's okay to have that call to action, and so that third type of email you mentioned was more of kind of like a promotion or sale and stuff like that. [0:31:20.1] 

And that kind of falls into that, like, it's okay to do that. You don’t want every one of your emails to be that, but it's okay to do it. So let's touch on that final aspect of email marketing.

Jeff: Yeah. It's almost what, you know, Gary Vaynerchuk would say, you know, jab, jab, jab, right hook - same concept, right - 75, 25, 85 or you know, whatever the percentages are, you want to give more than you take or ask for, so to speak. And if you are on the plus side of that, you're probably doing pretty good, and if you are 3/4 or more towards that, you're doing real good, and the more value that you get out there and give, the better off it will be but don’t make it 100, 0. Right? It's like you don’t, you know, you can't give in perpetuity without every once in a while asking if somebody wants to raise their hand. Give them the opportunity to raise their hand. You could do that through a few different ways. [0:32:05.9] 

We look at it through the lens of events, online and off. So if you're hosting an online workshop or webinar, however you want to describe that or if you're doing something live in the community, workshop, webinar, race event, whatever it might be, being able to promote that - we recommend a real simple sequence. Out two weeks before, you know, let people know. A couple of days before, let people know. Day of, let people know, and then if there's a replay, if it's like filmed, let them know afterward. So three or four emails, you're not like crushing people with like 85 emails. Three or four emails will boost attendance at those things like crazy, but then the subset, it's like, you know, or maybe it's a slightly different email but I think it's the same vein is yeah, if you sell products, don’t hesitate to every once in a while let people know. You know, like, hey we're running, you know, everything shouldn't be a sales email, but the other thing I think docs get confused about is you don’t need to discount your services, but you might want to discount a product. [0:33:03.5] 

You might be able to say hey, it's 15% off, you know, the pillows that we have. It's 15% off, you know, the tapes so you can utilize at home, but don’t hesitate to reach out every once in a while and let people know, hey, you know, we're, you know, we're running a promotion because of x, y, z. Hey, we're going to be, or a combo, right, best - hey, we're going to be at insert name 5K here in two weeks. We can't wait to have a booth. Stay tuned next week where we announce what we're up to there. That's your two week before email, right. Then a couple of days before, we can't wait to be at insert name 5K. We are super proud to be doing taping demonstrations and we're going to have 15% off tapes, basically the same email morning of - we're going to be there, show up and then you get your free, you know, widgamagidit, you know. And then the replay might be if, you know, we had such a great event. Here are two pictures from what we did and if you didn't get a chance to pick up your tape, you can go to our online store now for the next 24 hours. We're extending it another day or two and pick up your tape. I use tape as an example, but you could use almost anything with that and that's like being helpful, being engaging. It's not fire saling. It's not Grouponing. It's just being a nice, supportive, passionate and profitable business. [0:34:16.8]

Kevin: No, it is. Exactly. A couple of examples we do in our practice is we do a quarterly sports recovery experience on a Saturday - big event - we usually get 50 people signed up, usually 30 show up, and it goes really well. And so we'll definitely promote that through email and it's usually our best promotional option. So that's been good. And then back in December, I think it was, we implemented orthotics through Dr. Weidenauer, Dr. David Weidenauer's program, solutions it that and we just sent out an email and I think we got four people that had scheduled for orthotics and you know, those aren’t cheap, and so one email produced a fair amount of money from that. And so that was a couple of examples of promotional emails that we did that have been super helpful. And no one, no one gets upset because the vast majority of our emails are really good, you know, effective and educational content. [0:35:09.0]

Jeff: Yeah. That's the thing - it's like sometimes I feel like, you know, as you know, "the brand, the evidence based chiropractor" it's like, you know, sometimes I feel like you know docs that might, let's say, resonate with those words swing so far to the other end of the spectrum. It's like they can't talk about sales. They can't talk about anything to do with business, yet, that's the greatest challenge that they have. And it's like, you know, it doesn’t mean, the pendulum doesn’t swing zero or 100. There's a lot of grey in between in life and in practice and in business and just because you sell something doesn’t mean you're scamming. Just because you email doesn’t mean you're pitching. And just because you're a chiropractor doesn’t mean you're a lunatic. Right? These things are all truths. So, you know, don’t hesitate. You're a great doc in your practice. You know, chiropractors, on the whole, are some of the safest, most effective, we all know what we can do within our four walls. But you should not stop in those four walls, or else you're going to have a real hard time building throughout time. [0:36:08.2]

Kevin: Yeah, you know, it's like you said, the pendulum swinging, I think a lot of times, especially in the evidence based, evidence form kind of chiropractors is we try to avoid being that other, you know, like where it's, you know, 10-month long treatment plans and all these crazy things that the profession has done, currently or in the past, and so we end up on the other end of the spectrum, to our own disservice, and they don’t want to sell anything because they, oh, like I don’t want to close a patient, which I don’t either, but you can compel them. Right? And then you can, you definitely got to do some selling. You have to sell yourself. You know, I always ask chiropractors, like, do you believe in what you're offering, you know - do you think this benefits people in your community, and they're always like, yes, of course, of course, of course. I was like, well then why wouldn’t you want more people to utilize what you offer, you know. And they are like, oh, that makes sense. And it's not about being a car salesman or closing people or anything like that, but there's got to be some selling to what you do because ultimately, they're going to benefit from that. People want to buy things and if they're not going to come you, you're not going to sell them on your service, they're going to get it from somewhere else, and most likely, it won't be as high quality as what you're offering. [0:37:17.3]

Jeff: Yeah. I'd say two things to that. The first is you can't help anybody if you're closed. So there's that. That's not an excuse, though, to do unethical things. The secondary portion of that is people spend billions of dollars per year on a whole bunch of health crap that doesn’t work. You should be doing everything you can to showcase what does, and if you're not, that's on you.

Kevin: And you're actually helping them avoid being ripped off from other aspects, right.

Jeff: Yes.

Kevin: Alright. Cool. Cool. I really appreciate it. That was a great breakdown of email, and so, just you know, quickly, explain what you guys are doing to help chiropractors with email and how they can find some of that information.

Jeff: Yeah. So there's kind of two versions of that. One is we have ChiroEmails.com. [0:38:04.9] 

So ChiroEmails is we basically build all the automations; all the doc has to do is upload their email list and we build out all of the emails, all of the automations, all of the content - everything is already there. So it's really completely done for a doc, so, and it's an email product. We kind of built it on some of the architecture of the biggest email systems in the world, and then we built it specifically for chiropractors and probably no surprise to you, we have the three, of course, automations that we talked about built in, right. So we do onboarding. We do long-term drip and nurture one time a week, and then we have event sequences that the doctor can turn on and off. If the doctor is already onboarding through a software program, they can turn that off and just use our long-term drip and still get a supreme amount of benefit from it. Or if the doc, the splintered version of this would be that if the doctor loves that, but also needs help on the social media side, that's where we have the Smart Chiropractor. That includes ChiroEmails, but also has social media graphics, blog posts, videos, and all of that as well. [0:39:01.2] 

So we have both because we know some docs, you know, just need help with the email - cool. Check out ChiroEmail and see if it suits you, or if you need help with a little bit more than that, online presence wise, then Smart Chiropractor has ChiroEmails built into it, and they work synergistically. So, I'd welcome anybody that's, you know, looking to kind of build and grow. I mean, if you're listening to this and you know who I am, the evidence based chiropractor, you kind of know the gist of where it's going. We love, we always talk in the vein of research that matters. I brought that up earlier. We take a look at what's out there, what people are searching for in your community, key words, hot topics. We build our calendar around that and then we find the research out there, if there is any, you know, we're obviously making sure we are right in line with what is available. I'm not stretching it to say, hey, here's what's out there, research that matters to you, your patients, your community and that's kind of how we go about it. 

Kevin: Perfect. Yeah, we, at the CSA Retreat in Portland, I, my presentation was on optimization, automation and outsourcing, and I'm trying to get docs to understand is that you know, the way I look at it is everybody's at a different place, you know, and but the first thing you want to do is like okay, with your marketing or your business systems, can you automate it? And if it can be completely automated, great - you want to automate it. [0:40:14.2] 

If it can't, can you afford to outsource it. Right? Which is awesome, and if you can, please outsource it, and that's what you're talking about right now. If you can't afford to outsource it, you're going to have to really optimize it as much as you can. So like for instance, we're talking about email. You got to make sure you have templates in there, make it easy, do all that, but as soon as you can, get the crap outsourced, pay the, write the check, do it. Because we really want you focusing on your unique abilities. Early on, maybe you have more time than money, and I get that, but if you can afford it, write the check, outsource it. Get the marketing done for you. Get all those rule books out of there and what you're talking about helps do that.

Jeff: Hey, Kevin - let me ask you this. Do you have the ability and the show notes to link? I'm happy to offer the people listening, I wrote an onboarding sequence that they could copy and paste and utilize to get started. Do you want me to, I can shoot you a link and we can put that in the show notes? [0:41:06.7]

Kevin: Yeah, we can definitely do that. We have got, I've improved our show notes. I've brought on the Podcast Factory to do my podcast production, all the different stuff, and that's definitely one of the things that's come with it was much more robust show notes.

Jeff: Sweet. So yeah, if you're listening and you'd like to, you know, pick up an onboarding sequence, I'm happy to share it with you. Normally, I sell it for $20, but I'll share it with anybody. So, catch it in the show notes or email Kevin or myself and just let me know that you heard about here on the show, and I'll send it over to you and you can take a look, get started, see if it's something you can do yourself, and if not, obviously, we'd love to help you.

Kevin: I appreciate it. You know, I really appreciate your time as well. Thanks for coming on the show. We'll make sure all that stuff is in the show notes. And I know you and I will be talking soon. 

Jeff: Thanks, Kevin - appreciate it. 

Thanks for tuning in today. Please be sure to check our redesigned website at www.ModernChiropracticMarketing.com. Stay up-to-date with our blog, where content is regularly added by Kevin and guest contributors. You can also access our library of podcast episodes there. Go to www.ModernChiropracticMarketing.com and subscribe to the podcast today.

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 Hey, chiropractors. We're ready for another Modern Chiropractic Marketing Show with Dr. Kevin Christie, where we discuss the latest in marketing strategies, contact marketing, direct response marketing, and business development with some of the leading experts in the industry.

Kevin: Hey, Rich Ulm Welcome to the show. I really appreciate your time. Been wanting to get you on the show. We met in person for the first time in Chicago earlier in the year for the MPI Sports Symposium, where we actually co-presented and I talked a lot about the online world, and you talked a lot about the grassroots, and I'm a big believer in it. That's frankly how I built my practice to start out with and so, welcome to the show. Tell us a little bit about yourself, and we'll dive into the grassroots marketing.

Rich: Yeah, thanks for having me on. My name is Richard Ulm. I'm a chiropractor. I have a practice in Columbus, Ohio. We got four docs total in there and an amazing staff and so it's been kind of a whirlwind of growing the practice. [0:01:01.5]

Before I got into chiropractic, I was actually in the athletic world for quite a while and in the strength training world and it kind of inspired me to go in and start just working on movement medicine, and I just sort of ended up choosing chiropractic at that time because they are more hands-on and you have a little bit wider scope. And so, it's been a lot of fun but you know, as we talked about when we were in Chicago, you know, once you get rolling, you have to start, you know, getting this engine going and now instead of just one mouth to feed, there's four mouths to feed. And so you have to be smarter about your marketing and get into that a little bit. So I learned a lot from your little talk here and as we were talking, before we sort of hit the record button, getting into more of the digital space, which is one that I definitely value. I'm just not all that great at it.

Kevin: Yeah, you know. I think what's happening too with a lot of young chiropractors, and I said this a lot, is they think they can build their practice behind the computer screen, and maybe I'm at fault for some of that, but I don’t think that's the way you can really build your practice for the most part. There are definitely some outliers. [0:02:01.4] 

I think the way you really got to build is through the grassroots and kind of boots on the ground, and then if you, you know, marry that with some really good online presence and digital marketing, then you can have a very well-rounded practice and exponentially grow it and free yourself up. And that's the one thing I wanted you to have you on here to really dive into the grassroots marketing.

Rich: Yeah, you know, I definitely liked what you were saying before with, you know, you can't build a practice from behind a computer screen. You might be able to kind of do it, but not - you can't create a sustainable or self-sustaining engine, and the thing that got me into a little bit more of the digital marketing stuff, even I never cared about SEO. I never sent out regular emails. I didn't do any social media stuff for the most part, but I had a patient who is actually one of the people that runs, has a large regional bank here called Huntington Bank, and she's one of the digital marketers for that that kind of does a lot of like the planning and not just sort of like the implementation, and she asked me why I don’t do any digital marketing. [0:03:06.4]

And I was like, yeah, you know, marketing is dumb and you know, it's worthless and blah, blah, blah, and all this, you know, just silly stuff. And she goes, "Hmm." She goes "Well, I mean, do you think that you guys do good work here?" And I said, "Yeah, I mean, the best in Columbus." "Are you proud of what you do?" "Absolutely." And she said, "Well how many, what percentage of the population of Dublin do you think knows that you're here?" And I was like, "I don't know, like maybe 10 or 15%?" She was like, "It's probably not even 1%." And so she goes, "When you think about marketing, don’t think about coaxing someone into the office, into your office. Think of it as that you're highlighting, you know, something that you're proud of or a good product that is good for them. It's not that you're just trying to like trick them in, you know, with a carrot to get them in the door. It's like, no, no, no - hey - we're over here. We're doing good stuff. Right? And so you can use some of this digital marketing you've gotten really good at, but I agree with you that it needs to be highlighting something that's already established. So having the grassroots, having the relationships, having you know, good patient reviews and all that kind of stuff and just taking care of people, well then it's easy to highlight with a lot of the digital stuff. [0:04:14.3]

Kevin: No, it's true. You know, it's you believe in what you do and you're doing good things. It's not about… I think what happens is a lot of the chiropractors look at what chiropractors have done in the past on the bad side of things and obviously, chiropractors have done a lot of cheesy marketing and a lot of unethical sales and bait and switch and all that type of stuff and I think they go so far to the other end they're like, "I don’t want to market my practice. I shouldn’t have to. I should open up a practice and it be flooded with patients because I'm the best chiropractor in the area." And that's difficult if you have that mindset. You know, some people can pull it off, but it's really difficult and with good marketing, you're just highlighting, like you said, how good your practice is and what you can do for people. 

Rich: Well I think you can pull that off if its just one person.

Kevin: Yeah. [0:05:03.6]

Rich: It's much more difficult if you've got, you know, two, three or four or more. And the other thing is you know, I didn't do marketing in the beginning for the reasons that you just described, but I think that I would have grown faster had I done so.

Kevin: You're a perfect example of where, you know, you did a marketing talk with me, and a lot of people nowadays think of me with marketing as well, but I've been practicing since 2005 and had really made my name in the sports chiropractic side of things and working with a lot of high level athletes. And I, obviously, have Motion Palpation to thank for a lot of that. Being a clinician first, and that's what I always have been, and that's what you are, like … I remember when I told a few of my colleagues that I was co-presenting with you on marketing, and they were like, "Rich Ulm, like the…" You know, because they look at you as like a top clinician and educator in the profession with that and you obviously built your practice on a skill set. You're not building, you know, a house on quick sand. [0:06:02.8] 

You have a solid foundation, a clinical and then you built from there, and marketing is just going to really help highlight that. You're not going to have those holes in the bucket that some chiropractors are going to have where they didn't really focus on the clinical side first and get really good at that, and they tried covering it up with marketing and it really doesn’t work that way either. And so you can't put the cart before the horse.

Rich: Yeah, I mean, but I, now the four components of marketing that I talked about - one, the digital space, you kind of obviously went into depth and then we did the in-house stuff. Then we did medical marketing and then grassroots and I think those… if someone wants to have a successful marketing strategy, they have to be effectively doing something in each of those areas.

Kevin: Yeah, so let's break down the in-house first, and go from there. What are some of the key tips you have for our audience?

Rich: My key tip that I always tell people, and it's one of sort of our fundamental principles in the office is authenticity. You have to be yourself. So, you know, for some people, that's wearing a white coat. Right? For me, that's wearing you know, a polo shirt and tennis shoes or like some skater shoes or something that's, you know, having 90s alternative music on when I'm in the office. [0:07:16.1]

You know, that might be cussing occasionally. You know, I think that a patient, whether they could identify it and describe it or not, I think that they can smell that you're being disingenuous if you're trying to be something you're not, and so the start of it is authenticity. When you figure out kind of, you know, what your authentic self is, then you're able to sort of pick out colors and logo and music and you know, do you want it to be super clean and white, or do you want it to have like different colors. Because everything, like I talked about in Chicago, matters. And to me, I'm more interested in creating a solid brand and you know, the sales part of it, and my big point in that talk was the better that you do of creating a brand, the less selling you actually have to do. [0:08:04.1]

So if they come into the office and there is a very genuine vibe… like, we have, I would say, the best staff on the planet and they walk in the door and when they're … actually, before they get in the door, they've interacted with them on email or on the phone, and they already know that we're sort of a fun-loving kind of laid back office. So when they come in, the vibe of the office is very, very congruent with each of the docs and so then that's, that I think creates a very calm, easy environment that's exciting for people and when they leave, and this gets into the direct marketing part of it, you end up being something that's worth talking about. You know, if you're just a white coat dude with the normal, you know, hum-ho office that everybody else has and they walk in and they're like, okay, the guy seems nice, I don't know, I mean, adjustment was okay, and then they leave and there's nothing worth talking about, I think that that is harder to create a buzz there, to get any kind of traction in terms of patient retention and then people walking out and saying like, "Oh, man - you gotta go, you know, see this guy, you know, he's great," and then they send their mom in or whatever. [0:09:14.3] 

We have a guy, Ben Craft, who is in the office and it's hilarious, like because he'll have somebody come in. They'll bring their son in and then they'll leave and they'll schedule themselves, their daughter and their husband on the way out. Like, you know, because he's just a genuine guy. So he just kind of goes in there and just is himself and then people just instantly sort of talk about it because he's such a good guy.

Kevin: So, I want to touch on a couple things what you said there. One thing I've learned is the front stage/back stage. It's a concept that Strategic Coach talks about and it's really the front stage, you know. It's what the people see and what you, like a theatre and a show. You see the front stage. You don’t see the back stage, but the front stage is a big part of that experience that people have and it sounds like you've developed a unique kind of fun stage that's also congruent with the niche that you've targeted. Is that correct? [0:10:10.3]

Rich: Yeah, I mean, yes. But I would say that the, you know, I work with a lot of athletes, but I always have to emphasize, I work with a full spectrum. Like today I had two referrals from a spine surgeon, and they, you know, she had six surgeries. So it's like, you know, I see the full spectrum and so it's not like I have decided to play Pearl Jam because athletes like Pearl Jam. It's I have somebody that comes in from, you know, Brian Seaman's the guy's name, so he comes, he sends somebody in, that's a spine surgeon, and they walk in the door and this lady happened to be in her late 60s and she's had five surgeries and doesn’t want another one, and she comes in the door. And you know, I don't know how excited she would be to hear Pearl Jam, but I think … this was literally this afternoon or this morning … we had a good encounter because I'm not faking anything. I'm just standing there in my skater shoes and whatever, talking to her. [0:11:01.1] 

And I think that they relax a little bit more when it's not this sort of like sterile environment where, you know, if we had the soothing music and the small window where, you know, they open it up and close it. We have this gigantic window. It's probably, you know, 10 feet wide, maybe 5 feet high and so the staff is just standing there and you know, there's this much better communication or flow between the actual people walking in the door. Instead of like having that cold, like, window. We don’t want that. We want them to like instantly, you know, feel valued and like we're there to chat with them and all that stuff. So it's good.

Kevin: Yeah, and that’s definitely something I think people need to consider is that overall, like you're providing step-by-step, just a good overall experience for the patients and it's worth talking about. There's a book called Talk Triggers that was written by Jay Baer, and he talks about these different things certain businesses do that trigger the talking of that person and referability goes through the roof in those scenarios. [0:12:04.8] 

And again, it's not just the Pearl Jam music. It's the combination of friendly staff - like you said, you've got a great team around you. You've got a good environment, authentic, great doctors, good care, good communication, and that just leads to a great in-house experience for the patients.

Rich: Yeah, I mean - one area that I think that we haven't hit on because I agree with all that. Like the color on the walls, the logo you have, you know, how the staff dresses, the music, everything - how clean everything is. All of that matters and then of course, you know, the experience with the doctor matters, but one area that I think has helped us out quite a bit is giving a very thorough explanation of what is going on and why, even to the point where I will go over an MRI that I didn't order with them because they're like, "I don't know - he said my back's got arthritis in it." And then I'm like, "Okay, well let's open, let's pull the CD up and let's look at it and let's explain what stenosis is or you know, what a disc injury is," And then they leave informed and if you're going to have somebody, if you want them, let's say, you know, this particular patient, I mean, it's unlikely that we're going to, you know, "fix them" in six to ten visits. I mean, she's had 30 or 40 years of pain and she's got motor weakness at multiple levels and you know…[ 0:13:24.1] 

So it's going to be a complex case. So if I don’t explain what's going on well, and I'm asking her to do some stupid breathing, she's like, what is he doing, like, you know, it's my shoulder that's bugging me, you know, my neck, you know, is constantly in pain - why am I doing this other stuff. They're not going to do it. So they're not going to hang around. They're not going to refer anybody and you're not going to fix them. So if you give them a really thorough explanation, I, they love it. Like they leave like, wow, I had no idea why sitting hurt my disc. They're like, I didn't know; they just told me my disc was screwed up and I'm going to have pain. That's what they told me. So come back when I can't tolerate it anymore. Oh, okay. Well, here's why. Here's what's going on. [0:14:04.3] 

Here's you know, simple explanation of the mechanics of the disc and here's what we can do to fix it or improve it, and here's about how long it's going to take. And they leave educated, and they love it.

Kevin: Do you do any training with your staff and your doctors on this type of stuff and making sure that this is reproducible amongst different providers, different team members?

Rich: We probably do more with the staff, now that's only so, I mean, when they, if somebody calls in and says oh, I want to, you know, what's the first visit, you know, and they tell them or whatever. And they're like, oh, I know a chiropractor that's cheaper than that. Okay. Well, does he do this. You know, does your guy do this? And then we, they know about, you know, the McKenzie method. They know about functional rehab. They know about dry needling. They know about joint manipulation and we have educated them so that they can, you know, genuinely and honestly explain why we're different and why the prices might be more expensive. Because if they just want to get their back crunched, well then go somewhere else. I mean, that's not, you know, we have patients where, you know, we're staying ahead of like some chronic issues or they're, you know, an elite athlete that wants to make sure that they're not getting injured. [0:15:12.8]

But if somebody just wants just traditional kind of roll in and get their back cracked and roll out, that's fine. Then I don’t know if I would pay the difference in price if that's really what you want. But we need to be able to sort of catch those that if they come in and they're like, oh wait a minute - oh, so you have pain down your leg and you've been treating it with manipulation? Okay. That's cool. Well we have other therapies in addition to that that we can do. So we have done education, but it's mostly with the staff and then the doctors meet up once a quarter and we just kind of go over stuff. And that's not so much me bestowing knowledge on them. That's all of us sitting down as a team and saying, hey, you know, what's kicking your ass right now? What's blowing your skirt up? And so, we might have figured out weird things that we're doing, like oh man, I've been doing this with, you know, my radiculopathies, and they're responding great. Like we had Michael Shacklock in, who is just a phenomenal guy and puts on a great course. [0:16:05.0] 

So we did that and then we all meet up and we discuss, you know, about a month or two after it, so we know - you know, you come back in the next week, and it's either, you know, kicking butt or you're just like, man, I have no idea, you know, what is going on with this. So we wait until it sort of is watered down a little bit and then we can actually chat about it and go, oh, okay - well how have you implemented it? What did you take out of it - it's a month later, what did you take out of this? So, that's about as close to sitting down and saying, well, hey, here's how we explain things. I think some of the younger guys, they might have benefitted, like they've seen a lot of like, we'll get into the grassroots here in a second, but I teach a lot around here. And so they've seen me explain, you know, spinal stability 100 times. They've seen me, you know, talk about the squat, or they've seen me talk about disc mechanics, biomechanics of the shoulder, whatever, many, many times and so, you know, without asking them directly, I think they might have learned from that a little bit and then maybe taken that in. Another thing that we have is like some of the best $250 we have spent, is it's a 3 foot by 5 foot wide like Plexiglas dry erase board. [0:17:19.8]

Kevin: Oh, wow.

Rich: So number one, you don’t ever have to clean them. I mean, you just wipe them down and it's fine. They look way more professional. I saw them in a business meeting room one time, and then, you know, just with all these different markers, I can draw all these things and that is a pretty important piece - I probably use it on 90% of the patients, whether it's a followup or not. If I'm changing the exercise, I need them to understand why we're doing this or hey, this is exactly what, you know, the pressure in your belly is doing - it's pushing against the spine from the front and that's stabilizing it so your back doesn’t have to stay on, or whatever. And those are nice. And they last longer than the normal ones. They look nicer and then they're really helpful for that teaching process. [0:18:01.7]

Kevin: Well, that sounds great. I'll put that in the show notes as well, for sure. So before we jump into the last pillar, which is the grassroots, what's the third pillar of your marketing strategy?

Rich: So there's digital. There was in-house. There is medical marketing, which is potentially a whole thing in and of itself, and then there's the grassroots one that that was the one that I naturally gravitated towards, and that's the one that's still probably one of our main things.

Kevin: Okay, let's… yeah, let's dive into that. So we have got the medical, which is a big one, I know, and that's kind of a whole other episode and then with the grassroots, what are some of the things you're doing in the community to really build your practice or what you did and now you're obviously continuing to grow and stay relevant in the area?

Rich: Yeah. We're kind of on, I mean, we're always trying to reach out to other, you know, other possible areas. But then, you know, we have been here for almost, this is almost nine years, so now it's a lot of maintaining relationships that we have already established and kind of growing other ones and reaching out to other ones. [0:19:04.3] 

So, it really kind of started with I used to do, or we still do it a little bit, but you know, I got here and okay, we got to work races. And that's fine, it's not very time efficient. I think the thing that bothers people about grassroots marketing is that it's like planting seeds. You're investing. You're not getting back yet a huge ROI in the first, you know, month of doing grassroots marketing. Then it's like a, it's a summation thing. So somebody will come in and we'll have it, like hey, how did you hear about us? "Everybody told me about you guys. So, my doctor told me to come in, and then I went to my podiatrist, and they said to come in, and then I was in the gym and they're like oh, those guys are great, then I saw, you know, on Facebook or something that like with this video," and so they're like, yeah, fuck it - I'll just come in. So then they finally just come in and so it pays dividends later on, which to me, I'm always playing the long game. Right? [0:20:02.7]

Kevin: Yeah. That's a key ingredient.

Rich: Yeah. So it started with the races, and those were good, but then I personally like to present a lot.

Kevin: Okay.

Rich: And so then I started doing workshops and you know, they're 90 minute or 2 hour workshops at gyms in the area and they might be for just the trainers. They might be just for the clients. And so they come in and you know, I go okay, hey, we're going to do 90 minutes on, you know, how do you warm up for the squat or you know, trunk stability or - I was an Olympic weight lifter - so like, you know, clean technique or snatch technique or trunk stability for, you know, CrossFit or whatever. We would do these short, you know, 2 hour things and come in there and then you get to do, you get to kind of walk in and then you get to see, depending on how good the gym is at marketing it, but you might have - I mean, I've done seminars with 50 people there. So, I'm doing a seminar on Olympic weight lifting at a CrossFit gym and there were 55 people at this class. [0:21:04.8]

Kevin: Oh, wow.

Rich: Right. So I mean, so you're standing - that's 55 people that you get to encounter with. They get to sort of assess, alright, is this guy somebody that I would want to be treated by or not. Other than telling them what I do, I'm not telling them, like, okay - well, you know, today … you know, I don’t give them a call to action, which maybe is wrong. But like, hey, for attending today, if you want to come in, you can come in for free. I don't know, I might be able to do that. I think it's somewhat, I'm not super comfortable with that. So when I go, I just go, hey, this is what I do. I'm down the street. I work with this guy, you know, this is where we're at, this is what we do. Alright, let's get into it. So then I get in and we just kind of go through the class. So those were by far the biggest thing to kind of grow. And then that, you know, for the CrossFit community, then builds on and lets us get into, you know, when we do an event, well now it's people see us, and they're like, oh hey, you know, I took your class - that was great - or blah, blah, blah. And oftentimes, it's the second or third time that they come in or that they see us where they then feel comfortable to call in. [0:22:12.9] 

So in the running community, we might have done, you know, a community running clinic or something at a local running shoe store or like, you know, Ask The Doc or something, and you're just there for one night and you're doing this and you just kind of stand there and you chat. And then they just kind of get to know you.

Kevin: Alright. Cool. Yeah, so that's kind of what I did too, early on. I got in with a couple of running groups, which then got referrals to other running groups, went to a running store, got referrals to another running group and early on, probably 2007 and 2010, I was doing, I felt like I was doing a talk to a running group on a Saturday morning after a run three times a month, and it was just amazing what it did. When I remember that momentum it took - like you said earlier, you know, it didn't happen right away. This is, it's not going to happen in the first week, the first month - it's the long game. [0:23:00.4 ]

One of the questions I get from a lot of chiropractors is they don’t even know how to get started. Like they're afraid of "cold calling" people or cold leads. Any recommendations for how you got kind of launched into it or was it just getting out there and meeting as many people as you can, stopping by places. How did you actually get started? 

Rich: I mean, I think if I were to redo it over again, I might do it a little bit differently, but you know, it is a lot of just cold calling and just kind of walking in. So, you might just say, you know, if, you know, you could have your design guy make like a one page thing about like what you are or who you are and you know where you're at or whatever. And then just walk in, just be like, hey, you know, I'm in the area. I work a lot with you guys. You know, I just wanted to kind of drop in and introduce myself. You know, if you want to check us out, you know, here's this. We do seminars. We do this kind of stuff. You could do that. you could just drop it off and be patient and then come back in like a month later and maybe they would have checked you out. This is where, you know, if you have a decent amount of content on your website, maybe there's a blog or maybe you've got good Instagram content or whatever, YouTube content, then a lot of them might, I don't know, will say, you know, we'll just check them out and then see what's on there - oh, okay - cool - they've got some stuff on running mechanics or the foot or squatting or mobilization or whatever. [0:24:15.0 ]

And then they go on there and then they have something to look at. The thing that I always say when I get rolling with the relationship thing is, you know, this has to be beneficial for both parties. I'm not just, you know, coming in and just handing them business cards, you know, and refer me a patient - that to me is way inappropriate, but like… that'd be like walking in on a first date and just throwing condoms on the table and be like, are we going to do this? Like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa - let's chat a little bit here. So going in and just saying like, look, let me help you guys out. I'm going to come in and I'm going to do this seminar and we'll do this and we'll kind of hang out afterwards, but there is a little bit of a "cold calling." I just stop in and it's not necessarily efficient. [0:25:01.1]

I knew, you know, running store wise if you want to catch the owner, you probably want to get there between 10 and 11. CrossFit gym wise, you know, there's the lull after the morning group and then there's also a little bit faster, or sorry - right before the afternoon. So you kind of just know when you can kind of drop by. A lot people you can like interact with them on social media, and it's crazy - they're so willing to interact on social media. Like, I could send them a message and be like, hey, I'm a chiro in the area and I'd love to stop by. Sure. As opposed to just doing a cold call. So you could do that. Emphasize the two-way relationship, that you know, you want to help them out. Like, look, I'm here - and I will even flat out say, I'll be like, look, you know I want this to be beneficial for you guys, like, you know, I know that I'm comfortable with, you know, these things and blah, blah, blah and I love teaching and but I want this to be, you know, a two-way relationship, so I'd love to just like help you guys out more. Why not let me, you know, come in and do a seminar or whatever. Like right now, we're trying to move in - we have done well with CrossFit and now we have got, you know, Orange Theory is a like a I don't know, intensive sort of like interval training. So there's like 20 of them in Columbus. [0:26:14.6]

Kevin: You know, it actually started down here in Fort Lauderdale where I'm at down in South Florida.

Rich: Yeah. I mean, so the, it's great. And so getting out and then just, you know, working with them and just getting to know them. So we're trying to get that stuff kind of set up.

Kevin: Now are you having your associates do a lot of this stuff as well now, like getting out there and holding a lot of these…

Rich: Yeah. It's kind of a team effort. I mean, the associates are probably getting out and doing that stuff a little bit more. You know, one thing that I would say with either the medical marketing or the grassroots marketing is you have to have regular meetings with your team.

Kevin: Yep.

Rich: Because a lot of times, the mistake that people make is they're reacting to things, as opposed to anticipating them. So you should be planning out what you're going to do next week or the week after. We plan, like we met yesterday, and we're planning out, hey, what do we need to do in the fall. [0:27:02.7]

Kevin: Okay.

Rich: We're already thinking, like, okay, we have got to have this many. We want to have free seminars at a CrossFit gym. We want to get something with the running planned - okay, we got in and do something with Orange Theory. You know, what are we going to do with this. So, some of it is, you know, taking the coaches out for beers. Some of it is actually doing, like you know, a seminar there. Some of it is like, okay, we have got these comps coming up, whatever. All of those things. You have to plan in advance and particularly the medical marketing, early on, you just kind of stand there and if you just opened up and you're like, oh man, I need more patients. And so you, oh, I'll go, I'll go stop by a guy - I'll drop cards off at Starbucks, cool. And then you feel a little better because you're doing something. Then reality, you want to like sit down and think like, okay, what are my goals - this is kind of a strategic plan, right - like actually think about where you want to go - okay, well if I want to be here, what do I need to do. [0:28:01.6]

And if you're not regularly meeting with your team, which your team might be yourself, regularly scheduling, you know, sessions, I would say no less than every two weeks, it's going to be tough for you to stay on top of it and be able to catch these things correctly. Because if you're doing it once a month or a once a quarter on the medical part of it or you know, even in the grassroots part of it, you're like, well, shit .. you know, I, there's a race, you know, in two weeks, it's going to be great. Well, yeah but if I thought about that three months ago, I probably could have gotten in there, but now I don’t have any, like, you know, like, yeah, I don’t want to move my patients or whatever. So the meeting and thinking and planning is huge, for grassroots and for medical.

Kevin: Yeah. Otherwise, you're reactive, and it's just not working. One of the things that I'm working with my associate, I have a new associate now and we're doing, I just couldn’t keep up with all of the patient leads that I had, so it's like, okay, Mary would come in and has a fitness trainer and she's like, and I'd be like, oh can I, you know, talk with your fitness trainer and just have that rapport with him and see what we can and cannot do, and she'd be like, oh great. [0:29:08.5]

Or Bob comes in and has a golf pro, or this one goes on .... and all these different kind of leads that the patients would provide, I couldn’t keep up with it. So we started a spreadsheet called the patient referral directory where we, now my CA keeps tabs of all of that. I mean obviously gets permission for us to contact them and then now my, I'm having my associate follow up with some of those that I can't. So it's all been like a warmer lead than maybe a colder lead.

Rich: No, they're great. And so here's what we did with that, because that's a cool idea. And then remind me, because I want to talk about marketing for the grassroots event that I didn't do very well.

Kevin: Okay.

Rich: So with this, we're just like, man, we have these - I'd write them on our board. I'd be like, oh, John Smith - great trainer for so and so, whatever. And like we're wasting a huge opportunity because this patient is already speaking highly of us and they've already spoken like man, this golf pro is the best or whatever. So now what we do is we have a form that's a part of their new patient paperwork. [0:30:08.5]

Kevin: Oh, nice.

Rich: And I love it because it, if somebody comes in and if we know .. we'll say, oh do you work with a trainer, do you have, you know, a golf coach or whatever. And they'll be like, yeah, I have a golf coach. It's like, oh, okay, well, fill this out. We, it's important to us that we're keeping in contact with them so that your continuity of care is high. And so then, we, they fill this out and it's like the name of the trainer or whoever, you know, their cell phone, their email, where they work and then they sign their name at the bottom. So we're basically, it's kind of like a, you know, a HIPAA release for that. But that serves three purposes. Number one, it gives us some backing on the off chance, knock on wood, that you know, they sue us because we talked to their trainer and we have a document that says, hey, you told us we could do this. Number two, they're excited because then they are like, man, these guys actually talked to my trainers, right. And then number three, it gives us a record of who they work with. [0:31:04.2]

So what we typically do, like our system in the office is if a patient has one of those, then with the new patient paperwork, that's included. So then I know either I can just text them or email them really quickly at the end, which doesn’t have to be a lot. I usually send a voice text, because I don’t have time to type out like, you know - so it's a voice text that says hey, you know, so and so and so and so, you know, would love to meet you- blah, blah this, you know, my email is this, you know, call me whenever you want, like I want to make sure that we're working together to get so and so, you know, pain free and moving great. So that's our system.

Kevin: That's good.

Rich: Yeah, and so, it kind of gets distributed amongst all four docs that way, as opposed to if you were getting the majority of them, that would be tough.

Kevin: Yeah. I would just, I wasn’t following up with those. I was just too busy. But now, we have got a team effort around it, just like you do, and so we're able to utilize that and then that really gets you going into, you know, having that network around it. [0:32:05.6] 

You know, so many chiropractors think of the patient referral, obviously most of our practices are built on our patients referring to us, but if you also have a strong network in the community of people that, you know, aren’t even necessarily coming into your practice, but they're referring people in consistently, that's how you just explode.

Rich: Well, the other thing is that I think that building relationships, not with you, is really valuable. So if I can make a connection somewhere with a patient and a trainer or a financial advisor, I'm constantly trying to do that. I may or may not get anything from that. If I send a patient to, you know, Jeff Logan, like, alright, a financial advisor, I don't know - he may or may not know, but I just think that that is a powerful thing to do to be the guy that's kind of connecting a lot of these people. So, you know, we have gotten patients jobs. We have gotten them business loans. We have gotten them all kinds of stuff from just making connections there. And it just creates like, again, more of a bond I think with those people. [0:33:09.1]

Kevin: Being a connector is just huge for everything you do. It's cool.

Rich: Hold on, the other thing that I was going to say - I did not do this in the beginning, again, because of my initial hatred of "marketing." I would, you know, and I actually, I can't believe I'm saying this out loud - but so somebody would say, hey, do you have any like fliers or stuff for the event. And I literally in the beginning was like, that's, I'm just coming in, like, if you've got somebody, go ahead and do it, like I don’t, you know, basically I don’t have time for that. It was ridiculous because now with, you know, the digital space, you need to do pre-event marketing. You need to do, you know, in event marketing and post event marketing. So, that turns into, you know, fliers, and this isn't digital, but fliers, any time we do a seminar, fliers are up in every single one of the rooms and in the main lobby. Right? [0:34:02.5] 

And we send out an email to everybody saying like, hey, we're going to the, so and so is going to be teaching this thing here - if you want to go this, great. And then we have fliers that go up on social media, a couple, you know like, right when we book it maybe and then the week of, and then obviously when you're there, you're doing the stories and all that kind of crap. And then afterwards, that might go in a newsletter or that might go in like a recap social media post. So now, from one event, all you're doing is saying like, hey, we're doing x, y or z, which feels much more like, it doesn’t feel as awkward or gross to me as opposed to like some ad that you just throw up and be like oh, you know, want to get your back cracked? You know, here's a free exam or whatever. Like that's not my thing but I think the marketing can be just as effective if you're seeing that, so you're getting that multilayer buzz, like sort of piggyback marketing where you've got the actual event. You've got social media. You've got email. You've got stuff in the office, reaching out to other, like posting stuff on like, you know, say, CrossFitters in Columbus or whatever. [0:35:11.2]

All of that is good and the result is you get more people there, so in some case, we have had it where people come in, they weren't going to that gym. They liked that gym, and then they join there. Well the members love that. Like, oh, okay - they brought 10 people to this class. Right? So we charge for all of our classes and then we take that money and we literally like go hang out with whoever hosted it.

Kevin: That's awesome.

Rich: If I've got like, you know, an Orange Theory, we go in there, we do this thing, you know, we make $300 or whatever - alright, let's just go grab some beers. I mean, food is on me. I don’t want the money. I want the time to sit down and get to know these people to develop actual relationships.

Kevin: No, it's great. And you know what - another thing that we do - I'm glad you brought this whole topic up because recently I did a prevention talk with a shoe store owner and so it was him and I presenting, and we put together a Facebook event around it. We did a couple of other things like …[0:36:09.0]

Rich: Creating a Facebook event is another big one.

Kevin: Yeah, and so, what I found was obviously we got a lot of people signed up through there and we promoted it and we put content in it before, and then, we gave the talk and we mentioned resources and all that and then for like a week afterwards, I kept on dripping in, like, oh, here's a video I talked about, this, you know, exercise, and then here's this pre-run warm up I told you about. And so it was like I had an audience in there that I was communicating with after the fact and it had some of that carryover effect you were talking about. So that's…

Rich: You know, and here's what's even crazier - like, so for some of these events, we will actually do paid advertising.

Kevin: Yep.

Rich: So like, I went from, no, I don’t do that to okay, hey, this would make more sense, so let's do some social media stuff during it. And then I'm like, wait a minute, I could just put up a flier. So if we're going to be treating at a venue, it says, you know, hey, you know, Dr. Craft and Dr. Ulm are going to be a Valitus Games this weekend, you know, if you want, if you need to get treated, come, you know, come on out. [0:37:13.1]

So we have people that just come in sometimes - I mean, one of the patients were like, they'll bring a non-CrossFitter or non runner to an event so that I can look at them and then I look at them and I, you know, I don’t see any value in like half assing the treatment. I try to fix them right there. If I can, anything that I can do - so if I can get them feeling 100% better, right there, I do it. And so, but I've had people that have turned into patients from current patients that are athletes that are at an event that, you know, this patient introduced. Like, and they're like can you look at my mom? Yeah, bring your mom. I don’t care. Like, what's the charge? Zero. Nothing. I don’t care. Just - I'm at the event, I'm treating whoever is there. It doesn’t matter. And then I just kind of come in and do that. [0:38:00.8] 

So I used to just do that, but now, highlighting that we're going to be there has increased the volume of people that show up so now when you're at the event, you're not just kind of standing there twiddling your thumbs. You've got consistent action on the table, which then stimulates more action to get everybody - and like oh, let's see what those guys are doing. So that's great. The during is fine. And then of course the post is great, and you can do that with, you know, the follow up with the, not the blog, but …

Kevin: Email, Facebook, yeah, newsletter - all that's great to follow up. I'm a big believer in the crossover between having an offline event and using online to promote it and follow up. It's just a great combination. I remember when I used to, in 2006 when I first started doing events and talks and public speaking, I was like, there was none of that, you know, like I remember I had to direct mail people and fax people to see if they wanted to come to the office for a talk. Like it was treacherous.  [0:39:01.3]

Rich: Oh, it's so, I mean, and the specificity, you can go crazy. You can actually go nuts with that. So that's a whole other thing that I'm sure you've covered quite a bit, and you know, when you're doing an advertisement, you know, initially I am like okay, I'll make it for a 50 mile radius. So now I'm like under 10. You know, and that's kind of, certainly one of your specialties.

Kevin: Do you guys do anything with corporations, corporate talks or anything on site?

Rich: Yes. I would say corporate talks have produced the best ROI.

Kevin: Really?

Rich: Yeah, just because you show up. I don't know, and I do a talk. I have dangers of desk work so we talk about, you know, sciatica. We talk about carpal tunnel. We talk about chronic headaches. We have fads in the fitness industry and then we have nutritional myths.

Kevin: Perfect.

Rich: We kind of come in, and they're just 20 minute talks, just kind of roll in, I guess to go through other talks what we do. Those are big ones - running, how to, you know, prevent running injuries so that might be the running shoe store or at a lot of times, at a big corporation, they might want that. [0:40:08.4] 

I have a TMJ lecture that I'll do with dentists. That's usually the staff and so those are, those end up being pretty good. And not to bleed into the medical marketing, but I used to try to do that, like you know, what is functional training or what is active release technique or whatever. Now, I realized that you just want to get in front of them and chat with them and they want to say, oh, okay - he's not crazy. He uses normal medical terms. And that's fine. So I don’t do any presentations there. Occasionally, I might have like an OB/GYN office and they want to know about, you know, pregnancy and the pelvic floor or you know, what, you know, going through that whole process does to the core and why a lot of women get, you know, nonspecific low back pain. So I might do something like that. Those are much more rare. So we're by far the most are the workshops. [0:41:02.2] 

Then we'll do lectures and then we, like sorry, for gyms and then we'll also do the lectures to corporations. The other thing that I do, because I speak on the strength training circuit and you know, just to be, to get more use out of this content that I spend hundreds of hours working on, I will do, I will rent out a room at like, you know, one of our really nice recreation centers around here, and then I will do that talk for anybody. So we'll market it to all the CrossFit gyms in the area, to all the training, you know, the fitness studios and the yoga places that they come in and they just see me - I just go through my talk. Right? So sometimes there's 20 people at it, which is still great. I mean, it's the same thing I've already done. Either I'm really sharp because I already did it at the big venue or it's a practice run for me to get, you know, to do better at the big venue. You know, if the topic is right to me, I probably had 150 people at one of them for a talk I did about CrossFit, Friend or Foe? [0:42:07.8]

Kevin: Oh, man.

Rich: It was great. I mean, so then they come in and I had a bunch of physicians that showed up and had those.. it was great. So those can be good, and those are nice because all that is is a little bit marketing beforehand, you know, renting the venue, which for two hours is you know, $100 or whatever like that. Then you just have this nice day and you just kind of hang out there and you just do that stuff. It's great.

Kevin: That's awesome. And I think one of the key things that we need people to take into consideration here is you just kind of get in action. I think that's the thing that people … I talk to so many chiropractors and I'm like, oh, you know, what's your community outreach look like or your whatever, you know, public speaking. And it's like, oh, I did it a couple of times and it just didn't work or I haven’t done one in a few months. And I mean, that's the reality for a lot of people and it's just not working. It's not going to work that way.

Rich: Well, consistency and playing the long game - now the other one was, you know, the anticipating, not reacting. Those are the three areas that I think people are kind of messing up. [0:43:06.3] 

Either the walk in and chat with somebody is difficult, so try to think of a reason to go in there. It might just be like, hey, I'm in the area - here's this - I don’t want to take too much of your time, but you know, we work with a lot of people, you know, that I think you guys work with, so here's this - check us out if you want. And I would definitely, with trainers, I would say, hey, if you want to see what we do, like, you know, we'll give you a couple of sessions for free just so you can see exactly what we do, because we're different, and then that's a very strong call to action. Now, giving somebody free care, they're usually really crappy patients. A lot of times, they come in, they suck, they no show a couple of times, but then they refer a bunch of people in, and then so, long-term it's worth it, especially if you're just starting. Like, so if you bring on a new associate, I think that if they work an event, there needs to be, you know, the first, the assessment is free. [0:44:00.5]

And I don’t mean that in a chiro way where, well, I'll do a little bit of one, but if you really want care, then it's the full - no, fuck it. Just do the whole thing, waive the $55 or $155 thing, take good care of them, take the hit, and then get them in the door. And then if you're doing a good job with, you know, the digital stuff that you and I talked about before we started or doing a good job with the in-house stuff, then that person will turn into a producing patient, which is great.

Kevin: Which, is it, and I think, you know, what I love about what you're doing is obviously you have a growth mindset and you’ve got a full, well-developed practice now, and I think any chiropractor can do that, and it does take the four pillars that you mentioned. And so just to kind of summarize that - it's obviously the online stuff, which we didn't get a whole lot into, but we touched on it because it does piggyback the offline. Two is the in house. Three is the MD marketing, again, which is a whole other probably hour and a half podcast. And then the grassroots, and if your practice is doing that, that's how you're really going to get a lot of momentum and just grow really a great practice. So. I appreciate you coming on the show today and diving into that. It's been a pleasure workshopping these ideas with you over the last few month as well. [0:45:14.2]

Rich: Yeah, I'm excited to put to work some of the stuff we talked about beforehand. So, I've, I've certainly got gaps in my marketing strategy, so I'm always looking for knowledgeable people to take some stuff and implement it into the practice.

Kevin: Yeah. I think we all have gaps, even if you're well developed. I know for me, you know, I dove so much into the online the last four or five years. I sat back like a year and a half ago and say, oh, I think we're slipping on the community outreach and getting out there, and we were. And then we got back into it and we noticed an uptake. So you gotta be firing on all cylinders.

Rich: It's, and that goes, you know, tying it back into the meeting regularly, thinking about what you're doing. So I have a staff meeting every two weeks. We have a medical marketing meeting every two weeks and this is with different people, of course. [0:46:03.4]

Then we have a grassroots meeting every two weeks, and so those are things that we do to make sure that we're staying accountable because early on that was tough. We'd be like, alright, well let's do this, and then a month later or maybe we missed that meeting because we were only doing them once a month, so that's two months later, we're like, oh hey, what did we ever do with those emails? Oh, we didn't do it. Oh, okay. Well, let's do that now. And then two months go by again, and nothing happens. So the accountability is huge and being able to anticipate stuff has really kind of helped at least keep the wagon going.

Kevin: Definitely. Well, I really appreciate your time today, doc. I think this was great information and I hope it spurs some chiropractors along and to have a plan, be consistent with it and make sure you're just getting out there as much as you can.

Rich: It's no problem, man. Keep it up.

Kevin: Thank you.

Thanks for tuning in today. Please be sure to check our redesigned website at www.ModernChiropracticMarketing.com. Stay up-to-date with our blog, where content is regularly added by Kevin and guest contributors. You can also access our library of podcast episodes there. Go to www.ModernChiropracticMarketing.com and subscribe to the podcast today.

This is ThePodcastFactory.com



  Hey, chiropractors we're ready for another Modern Chiropractic Marketing Show with Dr. Kevin Christie, where we discuss the latest in marketing strategies, contact marketing, direct response marketing, and business development with some of the leading experts in the industry.

Kevin: Welcome to another episode of the Modern Chiropractic Marketing show, this is your host Dr Kevin Christie, and today I've got a solo episode and I'm going to break down my top five marketing books that helped me grow my practice, and obviously help with this podcast, the Facebook group, everything that I've been doing around marketing for chiropractors. Going to really break down the top five books, not in complete detail, but going to give you just a reading resource if you're interested in marketing and how it can be applied to your practice. Obviously you listen to the show and hopefully are part of the Facebook group and you read our blog on the website that helps you, but if you want to dive deep into some certain topics that really were instrumental in me understanding it and then being able to apply it to my practice, we're going to cover that today, we're going to go over my top five books. [0:01:14.8]

Before we do that, I want to again mention the CSA winter retreat, which will be in Palm Beach, Florida, and we're going to have that December 14th and 15th. For right now I just want you to mark your calendars off. I don't have a registration page yet, we're getting that together. We've got the venue, the Seagate Hotel and Resort, you can look that up. We'll have a room block. We're going to have a great day of learning on Saturday, we've got Dr. Jeff Langmaid coming to speak, we've got John Morrison coming to speak on messaging and story branding, I'll be speaking, Dr. Bobby Maybee will be speaking, and Saturday's going to be in the classroom in the conference room at the Seagate hotel. We'll really dive deep into it like we did in Portland. And then at night there's this really cool, so it's actually going to be in Delray Beach, Florida, which is in Palm Beach County, it's not too far from either the Fort Lauderdale or the Palm Beach Airport. [0:02:09.6]

There's this pinball museum, they call it museum, but you can play all the stuff and it's really big, two stories. We're going to rent out, they've got different bars in there and they've got the Kiss lounge after the 80's band, and we're renting that out for CSA members, and we'll have food, drinks, play all the pinball, Pac-Man, old arcade games, skee ball, like all this stuff, but it's all vintage machines and you get to play, and it's really a good time. They play great music, sometimes they have a live band. So we can do that on Saturday night, and then on Sunday morning when we get together, the morning at the beach, so the Seagate Resort has a beach club, which they will trolley you there, they have their own trolley. They'll take you to the beach, we're going to get into small groups, we'll have breakout sessions, small group with Jeff Langmaid, small group John Morrison, small group of Bobby Maybee, small group with me. [0:03:00.9]

Really start to dive deep into your practice or your situation, maybe you're a student, maybe you're an associates, whatever. We're going to wide ranges like we did in Portland. And then the rest today will be beach day right there, and you can hang out at the beach, have a good time and enjoy December beach, which is, I know rare for a lot of you listening, and we'll have a good time until you have to leave for your flight. So mark that in your calendar. Again, that's December 14th and 15th, and soon we will have the info out there for you. Okay. Alright, so let's dive into my top five marketing books. You know I've read a lot, I spent, you know I'm 15 years into this profession, and the first 10 of it was just so heavy clinical, which I'm glad I did, you know I'm a clinician first, a lot of people don't realize that. I've done a lot on that side of things. And then about five years ago is when... So I opened my own practice in 2010, and I would say about 2013, maybe it was more like six years ago I really started to try to learn how to grow my practice. [0:04:09.9]

At that time I had two practices, I still do, Miami and Boca Raton, Boca's the main one, and I really wanted to grow it. So I started reading into some marketing books, and one of them really got into podcasting, I was listening to a couple podcasts and they kind of led to books, but one of the big books for me, and this will be the first one we talk about is called Epic Content Marketing, and that's by Joe Pulizzi. He's the founder of the Content Marketing Institute, which I've done a lot of, I've done trainings with them, I've gone to their huge event they have each year in Cleveland, the Content Marketing World. I went to the content marketing masterclass which was taught by him and Robert Rose, both of them have really been instrumental in my marketing, and so if you listen to me at all or see me speak in public, a lot of what I talk about is Content Marketing Strategy. And this book, Epic Content Marketing was really the foundation for me to do that. [0:05:06.8]

He's got a few other books I'll just kind of mention, and one is called Content Inc, which is another good book, but really the Epic Content Marketing book was the foundation of it. So I highly recommend that, if you really want to understand the strategy behind content marketing and how it's not just, you know, just producing content isn't necessarily a content marketing strategy. Obviously I discuss a lot about that, so check that book out, it's really easy to read. It's a little thick, but it's easy to read and it's interesting, good stories in there, good examples of how like Red Bull. You know obviously, we think of Red Bull as a drink, but they also have the Red Bulletin, which is their journal, and they've got this whole Red Bull Media, and a lot of you realize like they're making a lot of money off of their media and they take a ton of photography of extreme sports and such, and then they got to the point now where they've actually started licensing their images. [0:06:09.6]

And so what's happening with some of these companies is that they are not only a brand, but they're a marketing company. So obviously Red Bull's a brand, but now they have Red Bull Media, and it's a whole media company that's making its own money. So not only is it growing the soft drink, but it's also making its own money in the marketing, which most companies have a marketing department that doesn't necessarily have a revenue stream, obviously the marketing department makes money for the brand, but this is a situation now where you're seeing brands become media companies, and that's where I think we can do that as practices. Now we may not make money at it, but we can definitely be a little mini marketing, a media company in our community and really produce a lot of great content. [0:07:03.0]

So that's one of the take homes from that, so check that book out. Number two, and this, I have written this in order for me personally of what I think is really been, has moved the needle. Number two is Building a Storybrand by Donald Miller. I know that's not the first time you heard that one. A lot of you have read it. Again, it's a very easy read as well. If you really want to get clear on your messaging, it's huge. A lot of times we develop a content, and it's relatively good content. We use a distribution channels, we do it pretty well, but it doesn't resonate with our audience, or maybe we even have a clearly defined audience to begin with, but we're just missing the boat. Or we see a lot of young chiropractors struggle in practice with having patient retention and patients following up on their or their care and their recommendations and a lot of it, frankly, is communication is lacking, and the messaging, even in your one on one interactions with patients is off. [0:08:03.4]

I think this book does a really good job of starting to understand how you can get really clear with your messaging, so check that. I mean heck, the subtitle is Clarify Your Message so Customers Will Listen, and that really tells the story. So check out Building a Storybrand by Donald Miller. Obviously I mentioned earlier John Morrison is coming to present in the CSA retreat in December. He and I are our co-presenting at Forward St Louis in September, and then him and I are also co-presenting on this topic in New Jersey for the state association meeting, I think it's October 12th. And really how John and I are pairing up a lot is because I talk a lot about content marketing, planning and budgeting, distribution and John talks a lot about this messaging and building a storybrand, he's a certified storybrand coach. So it's definitely helping a lot of chiropractors out. [0:09:02.4]

Alright, the third one is The 22 Laws of Immutable Marketing. This is one of those books, you know I think with a lot of times marketing we fail to realize that it's not just about social media, it's not just about content, it's not just about messaging sometimes. There are certain laws and psychologies around marketing. People will buy or act because of certain ways that you have presented and positioned, and it's just a really good book. Heck, I could probably do a podcast on The 22 Laws of Immutable Marketing and just run through each one and how it applies to chiropractic, but it's really just a great foundational understanding of marketing. Okay? So it's just understanding what marketing is, and it just was a foundational book for me, so check that out as well. That when I actually listened to on Audible a couple times, and it's an easy listen, so check that out on Audible if you feel like not reading. [0:10:08.1]

I think most of these are on Audible, frankly. I still read physically a lot, and I also listen. I am the type where I've always got a book I'm reading, always got a podcast I'm listening to and always have an audio book I'm listening to, so it gets a little ridiculous to say the least. Alright, number four is Everybody Writes, and this Anne Handley, and I really like this book, and it really breaks down. So the subtitle of the book is Your Go-To Guide to Creating Ridiculously Good Content. A lot of people get scared of writing, and writing can be everything from an email to a blog post to a long article to a book to an Instagram post. There's all kinds of ways, and she breaks down a lot of great..., and the thing that's great about it, she talks about it in here is the readability. This book has got such good readability, and one of the things that stands out for me is the chapters are really short. [0:11:09.5]

Sometimes one page, sometimes four, but they're between like one and six pages. Bigger text and law bullet points, and she definitely practices what she preaches in the book, and it's just so easy to read, and she talks about how to write that way to where it's easy to read, how to get started, all the little roadblocks you may have in getting writing done, it does it, and then it breaks down different channels. Like how to write for Instagram, how to write for Facebook, how to write a good blog post, sentence structure without getting boring and into all the grammar and stuff, but it's just a really good book on copywriting. So that has been instrumental for me, I read that a few years ago, it cleared the way to write, and just I highly recommend it. Even if you're just writing emails and certain things like that to your patient base, it's a great book. So that's Everybody Writes by Anne Handley. [0:12:04.1]

And number five is... So Dan Kennedy, I'm going to kind of go into a little bit of a spiel. If you don't know Dan Kennedy, in 1980's, 1990's he was really the foremost authority in marketing, in particular direct response marketing which is another type of marketing where you're getting a direct response from it. Like you're trying to get them to call your office or trying to give them your email, their email to you so you can follow up. You're trying to get an immediate response from them and so you have the right compelling copy, and also just different strategies to have that person act. It's kind of going back to the psychology of marketing that I talked about with the 22 Laws. So Dan Kennedy was, he did a lot actually in the chiropractor profession, and he, I think there was a particular large franchise of chiropractic practices that he really helped grow them and he's just a really great mind when it comes to marketing. [0:13:06.8]

He's got many books, he's got marketing books, business books, sales books, and so he's a good resource for you. But the one book that I cherry picked out of all, I've read all of them, but the one I cherry picked was Direct Response Social Media Marketing, and I'm going to read this whole title, it's kind of clever, but it's the No B.S. Guide to Direct Response Social Media Marketing: The Ultimate No Holds Barred Guide to Producing Measurable, Monetizable Results with Social Media Marketing. So he coauthored this one with Kim Walsh-Phillips, she knows a lot more with the social media side of things, he's more marketing direct response, he's definitely old school and he's not into social media too much but you can, it kind of shows you. Like there's a whole chapter here where social media is not marketing, and I'm a huge believer in that. [0:14:01.8]

It's just a distribution channel, so he can apply a lot of marking principles and Kim Walsh-Philips can optimize the distribution. But one of the things that she mentions in this particular book that resonated with me and you've heard me talk about it, is your marketing should be 85% PBS, and 15% QVC. She coined the term, at least in this book, and that's where I got it, and basically she's saying 85% should be great information, educational information like the PBS channel, and 15% should be call to action or sales, like QVC. I'm very, very, very strongly opinionated on that. I think it's the way to go, especially as a chiropractor or any type of health field, I think that's just the way you should be doing it. And so this book was great for me to understand how to leverage the distribution channels of social media and get actual results, because what's happening is a lot chiropractors, a lot of people in general will start running Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and doing all that, but they're not optimizing the channels, they're not clear on their message and they're not consistently creative with their content marketing and they wonder why it's not working and they blame Facebook ads or Instagram or YouTube, and that's just really the problem is that you're putting the cart before the horse if you're only focusing on running a Facebook ad, but you're not doing it optimally, you're not having any type of good copy writing and the direct response aspect of it and you don't have the content or the messaging. [0:15:43.1]

So that's why I really like that book, really these five kind of tie in to what I teach with the marketing roadmap, which again is you have to have the destination, and that's your planning and positioning and budgeting and all that, you have to know where you want to go. Then you need the GPS, and that's how to get there and that's going to be your clearly defined audience and a clearly defined message that matches up with it. Then you've got the fuel, which is going to be your content marketing strategy, and then you have the vehicle which is the distribution channels, that's your social media, email, print, public speaking, all those different things. And that's the roadmap to where if you apply that and you do that consistently, that's how your practice will grow, and these five books were very instrumental for me. So to recap, Epic Content Marketing, the second one was Building a Storybrand, third one was The 22 Laws of Immutable Marketing, four Everybody Writes, and five, Direct response BS book. It's the No BS Guide to Direct Response Social Media. I won't read the rest of it. So check out some of those books, dive into them, see how you can apply it to your practice and watch it grow. Have a great week, and we'll talk to you soon. 

Thanks for tuning in today. Please be sure to check our redesigned website at www.ModernChiropracticMarketing.com. Stay up-to-date with our blog, where content is regularly added by Kevin and guest contributors. You can also access our library of podcast episodes there. Go to www.ModernChiropracticMarketing.com and subscribe to the podcast today.

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Hey, chiropractors we're ready for another Modern Chiropractic Marketing Show with Dr. Kevin Christie, where we discuss the latest in marketing strategies, contact marketing, direct response marketing, and business development with some of the leading experts in the industry.

This is your host, Dr. Kevin Christie, and today I've got another episode of the Modern Chiropractic Marketing show. It's an interview. We really want to dive into video, get that going for people. I know there's a lot of road blocks and sometimes it's getting in front of the camera, sometimes it's the editing process, sometimes they don't know how to distribute it and optimize it, and sometimes, frankly, it's the technology behind it or the lights, camera, action type of thing. So today I have Adam on the interview, and he did a whole module on this inside of the Chiropractic Success Academy, it was really good. We did a follow-up interview for the podcast to start to break down some of the equipment you should consider, you know things like lighting and cameras and sound and other aspects of getting video done and removing that roadblock from video and just actually doing it. [0:01:16.8]

So we dive into that in depth today, I know you're going to like that, check out his information, he's helping chiropractors overcome this side of things, and also there's going to be some show notes with some good information on there as well, so highly check that out. Because a lot of times when we talk about cameras and different options it gets a little bit tough to remember, so we'll make sure that we have really good show notes for that. Okay? Before I dive into the interview I want to let you know that, I mentioned it a couple times, got two really big events that I highly recommend coming up. First one I'm going to mention is the, is Forward 2019, and that's in St Louis, Missouri. I'll be speaking there with John Morrison, we're going to dive into some marketing in the trenches. A bunch of other good, great vendors and speakers. There's going to be a job fair there, this is just a really good event to connect with your colleagues and to learn a lot over a few days. [0:02:12.3]

So check that out at ForwardThinkingChiro.com, and click on there, you get some tickets, it's getting close to the time that it's going to be there, and this will most likely sell out. We just had a great, great turnout last year and it was just impressive what Bobby Maybee was able to do on this event. This one will be really good as well. Some of the speakers are just unbelievable, Gray Cook, Annie O'Connor, it's just great, it's kind of blending in with some of the physical therapy world as well. So just look for a great venue at Logan. My alma mater so I'm excited about that. Alright, the next one is Motion Palpation has their Adjust-a-thon, and that's going to be in Cleveland, everything Missouri. I guess I should refrain from saying Missouri because Overland Park is in Kansas, I don't want to upset the folks in Kansas. [0:03:04.6]

But yes, so Missouri, Kansas. Check out that event, that's in Kansas City. Well I guess this is where I get confused. We think of Cleveland University, we think of Kansas City. Instead of whole thing where we just use a city that everybody knows, not everybody knows Overland Park, but technically it's in Overland Park, Kansas, right across the border. The city itself, Kansas City is great, I highly recommend it. So when you come out to this event September 28th and the 29th and you've got everybody from Mark King to Cory Campbell and others, Brett Winchester is going to be there, Erica Mannerick and Sarah Macchi is going to be there. I just highly recommend Motion Palpation for everything. This one I really like, I've been to in the past it's because it's the full spine analysis and adjusting. This is going to be everything adjusting it is going to be full spine, really going to dive into that, and there's a lot of doctors are going to that, so it's not just about students at this event, this is one of the Masters Series, and I had chatted with the folks at MPI, and the number of doctors that's going to the event is great, it's increasing. [0:04:14.3]

I think a lot of veteran, seasoned doctors like myself are realizing that it's great to go to these events to pick up new skills, as far as joint assessment, motion palpation and the adjustment. So we're seeing a lot more of the seasoned chiropractor going. So check that, so that's again, September 28th and 29th, you can go to MotionPalpation.org/seminars. Alright, without further ado here's my interview.

Kevin: Alright, welcome to the show Adam, I really appreciate your time. You were kind enough a couple months ago to do a video module for the Chiropractic Success Academy. We've got an audience of listeners here that ask a lot of questions about video, so before we dive into that, introduce yourself a little bit for us.

Adam: Well thanks Kevin, glad to be here. Yeah, my name's Adam, I've been involved in video production since I was probably in my late teens, my dad got me into it and been involved in production work my whole life, doing independent films, as well as local business ads, promotional materials, training videos. I think my first start with it was with a client probably eight years ago, massage therapist. So yeah, and that was sort of my intro into the health world. [0:05:28.9]

Kevin: How did you get into the chiropractic world?

Adam: I just decided to go for it, I figured I would go ahead and niche down. I have quite a few friends that are either massage therapists or chiropractors, and just thought I would focus more on that.

Kevin: Perfect. Seems like, obviously a lot of chiropractors are shooting video nowadays, there are some that are scared of it, there's others that don't necessarily see the value. Let's talk to the chiropractor that doesn't necessarily see the value. What would you say to them?

Adam: That is possibly true, it all depends on who you're trying to reach. If you're trying to reach people on Twitter, then video might not be a first choice. [0:06:11.2]

If you have a lot of clients that have questions that you could answer with a video, that could potentially save you some time, or if you find a lot of people come in and you want to get them familiar with the practice before they ever come in, just from their smartphone, wherever, could be nice to have a video pop up on Google Maps through your website on your home page, things like that, just to get to know somebody a little bit and sort of take the first step.

Kevin: That's a good point. I think a lot of times where people, when chiropractors think of video they're thinking of being the star of YouTube or Facebook or Instagram or whatever, and all that goes into that, but it can even just mean, you know like you said, having video of your office or shooting videos and having in YouTube and utilizing it for patient education, I know I do that a lot where I've got all these different types of videos. [0:07:06.5]

For example, if a runner comes in and I ask whether they're doing a pre run warm up and they're not, I go right over my computer and send them a quick emails through our EHR system of this pre run warm up I did it. There's other examples of that, but I use it a lot for education as well, so it's not just about doing Facebook live in front of all these people or producing videos and getting a million views. Right?

Adam: Yeah. It's that constant form of contact, you know, and you might not necessarily want to put it out for everybody everywhere, this is for the clients that you already have, and it's a free playlist that you've made for them or something.

Kevin: Yeah, you can choose to do that for sure. Another side topic on it, I recently did an episode where I was like basically, I think the title was You Don't Have To Be a Celebrity, and I think that's a misconception of chiropractors that if they're not killing it on YouTube or killing it on Instagram that it's not worthwhile, and it's not the case, it's just a really good part of a well-rounded content marketing strategy, is videos, it's got a lot of uses. [0:08:12.6]

Adam: Yeah, and that's true for anybody that wants to be on camera. You don't have to be this charismatic personality, you just really have to have a spirit of helping people and want to solve people's problems. If there's somebody that's prettier in the office that might do a better job, then have them do it and find a person that's more extroverted. I see them do better as a front face.

Kevin: Yeah, I mean that's a reality, it's just like there's a reason why, I just went to a movie and watched Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, and there's a reason why Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio make a zillion dollars. They are obviously attractive, but they are good at acting, and uniquely skilled at that. So there is a very wide range of skill on video, and obviously effectiveness, and not everybody's going to be Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio, but even from a chiropractor perspective, there are some people that are a little bit more camera friendly, maybe a little bit more charisma, energy, not afraid of the camera, just things like that. [0:09:16.7]

But it doesn't mean you can't do it. Right?

Adam: Right. It's a skill, you have to just start doing it and you'll get better at it as you go. If you've never been on camera before, sorry, you're just going to be awkward unless you've got a theater background or something like that, so just start doing it and you'll get better over time. Especially when you watch yourself a million times over on the computer.

Kevin: No, it's true. I've shot a fair amount of video now, I've done a lot of podcasting and I've heard myself and seen myself a lot now, and I've improved, I think, from that just because of being able to see it and realize, "Oh, wow." And I one of the things for me I know I have to do, I tend to be in person a little bit more laid back, is I have to double my energy and try to increase it a bit as I'm shooting a video so it doesn't come across as just like a boring, talking head.  [0:10:07.0]

Adam: Yeah, it's it depends on the result that you want to get from the video. It's just a tool.

Kevin: Absolutely. So let's dive into the mechanics a little bit, because I think people, another roadblock besides just putting themselves on camera and out there, another roadblock is the technology. Do you have an overall thought process on the technology of things and then we can dive into the details?

Adam: It can be as easy or as complicated as you want to make it. You can do something on your smartphone and upload direct from there to like an automated platform, either YouTube or just extract the audio for a free podcast. It can go all the way to where you're adjusting the color and manually leveling out the audio, so it's how deep would you like to go. And it all depends on the distribution platform. [0:10:59.2]

Kevin: Okay, perfect. For us when I'm shooting clinical type stuff, we're really just using my iPhone and good lighting and things like that, which we'll dive into, but then there's times where I shoot videos for the Modern Chiropractor Marketing group or CSA and I have my videographer come, and it's a world of difference for sure, but from the perspective of, you know, you got to take into consideration cost and ROI, it's probably not going to be feasible for a lot of chiropractors to have a professional videographer come in every week to shoot weekly videos or four a month and things like that. Maybe you can batch it, but it can definitely be worthwhile, we'll get to that, but for a lot of people just having good, an iPhone, good lighting, good mic, that seems to be pretty efficient for chiropractors, per se. 

Adam: Yeah, just an iPhone, maybe an external microphone would probably be the one thing that I would buy additional, if you don't buy anything else. [0:11:59.1]

Kevin: So let's go down that path of audio, and obviously it's important. What are some of your recommendations for some equipment regards that?

Adam: The cheapest thing that I could probably recommend was the Road Smart Lab, and we talked about that on the module. It's like $70 and it's got a pretty long cord, you can plug it into your iPhone or your Android, whatever, and I believe on the iPhone it will just record in the video app, so whatever you're using it will do it. Android, you may... I'm pretty sure that it will do it automatically with the video if you like just hit record on the android's video, built in video app. That just makes a world of difference right there. Just being able to hear somebody close and clear, people are listening on an iPhone anyway, so the audio is not going to be great, so the tighter you can get it when you're recording it, the easier it will make it for people to hear.

Kevin: Okay, so that was the Road Smart Lab, you said?

Adam: Yeah.

Kevin: That's a $70 option, and is there any others, maybe a little bit higher quality? Obviously, probably a higher price point. [0:13:01.9]

Adam: Higher quality, yeah, the sky's the limit. If you want something that's still wired, you can get wired microphones that go up till like the $400-600 range, but wireless would probably be a better option if you're going to spend more money on it, just so that you won't be tied down with cables.

Kevin: Okay, what's a good wireless option for us?

Adam: There's a really cheap one that just came out recently, it's called The Road Wireless Go, and it's basically, I think it's not Bluetooth, I think it uses like the same frequency that wireless internet does. It's like $199 and you can plug one end of it straight into your smart phone and stick the other end, just clip it on somebody else's shirt.

Kevin: That'd be good for, a lot of chiropractors discussed doing kind of patient encounters, like experiences, recording that. That would probably be good for that. Correct?

Adam: Yeah, or even during a tour of your office, so that the person who's holding the phone isn't tied down so that you can walk a little bit ahead of the measure, poke in your head into different rooms and stuff.  [0:13:59.3]

Kevin: Perfect. Okay, So that's audio, that's important, there's obviously probably a zillion different types we could go over, but that gives us a really good baseline as far as cost and options and why you would use wireless versus the wired version.

Adam: Right. Just to give that flexibility and just ease of use. 

Kevin: Alright. Let's say we wanted to up it a little bit, we didn't want to use our smartphone. Do you have a recommendation for a type of camera that would be good for the chiropractor to use in their office?

Adam: Probably for ease of use, I don't discount camcorders. I actually have three camcorders and they're not super popular, so they're actually really inexpensive.

Kevin: I don't doubt that, it's like if you're trying to find a Palm Pilot now.

Adam: Yeah. But they still make them, they come out with new models still, they're just not as big as they once were so they've had to drop the price down to make it more viable, and I don't know why more people don't use them, especially for the ease of use.

Kevin: I think they're great, actually. Especially in a lot of different types of settings like this. Perfect, okay. So let's move on from the camera, the next one that's a big topic and very valuable is the lighting. I've seen videos where just the lighting is terrible and you want to turn your head. So what are your recommendations from a lighting standpoint? [0:15:17.8]

Adam: The biggest thing with lighting is just have more of it. A lot of lights, you know, you turn on all the fluorescent lights and everything that you can and it's still not very much, it's either all coming in from a window and it's cloudy or whatever. So just adding a whole bunch more light is just the simplest, cheapest thing that you can do.

Kevin: What it what are some of our tech options we have for that?

Adam: There's one called the Tota, it's spelled TOTA it's made by Lowel, LOWEL, you can find them used everywhere because they were super popular back in the day. They're like $50, and it's a 500 watt light. You literally just put it on a stand, plug it in and point it at the ceiling, and it'll probably triple the amount of light that you've got in any room, even with all the lights on. [0:16:02.5]

Kevin: And how many do you think any of those?

Adam: One, maybe... Yeah, one or two, two at the most.

Kevin: And you said you place them on a sand stand, is there a type of stand or?

Adam: Just any stand off of Amazon you can get for like $10-20. You just search "light stand" and you'll come up with all the stuff.

Kevin: Cool. Yeah, we'll have all this in the show notes as well. So we've got our audio, our camera and our lighting figured out. We obviously, we touched on some of the basics of doubling your energy, practicing, getting used to it. Maybe finding the person at your office that is ideal for it if it's not you. If it's you or if you think someone else is better but you want it to be you, just practice, you will get better. So we got those things worked on. What's the process now, like what do you recommend for chiropractors that have produced the video, now what about the production side of things? What are the thought processes on that? [0:17:01.2]

Adam: You mean as far as editing goes?

Kevin: Yeah, I mean editing, putting maybe a logo sting on it, captioning, things like that.

Adam: Depends on the platform. Play to the platform, if it's Instagram then you can do longer than a minute without somebody having to click and watch it on Instagram TV. Facebook, you definitely want to use captions because almost all videos on Facebook are watched with no sound, YouTube can pretty much be anything that you want, probably would reserve that for longer form stuff, if you're going to do an entire session with somebody. I know a lot of chiropractors have gone viral with that type of thing, you really can't do a lot on YouTube in a minute, and you might as well just put it on Facebook or something, depending on where you're linking it to.

Kevin: Let's go to Instagram. Obviously with a video for Instagram, it's got to be less than a minute. What we tend to do a lot is pick a topic and shoot a regular video that's going to go on YouTube and Facebook and then just kind directly...

Adam: Just cut it down. [0:18:02.0]

Kevin: Yeah, exactly. We directly upload it to Facebook, we directly upload it to YouTube. A lot of times I'll redo a video and shoot it for under a minute, just hit the key points and do that. So that's something to consider, but also you said you could shoot it longer for Instagram, but it's going to go into your TV, you said?

Adam: Yeah, the Instagram TV. You can only play I think the first minute if it's longer than that, but then it'll have a link to like keep watching and you have to click and it'll switch you over to Instagram TV, which sort of takes you out of, takes somebody out of scrolling through their feed, so they really have to want to dive in to watch further than a minute, but they can do it on Instagram.

Kevin: Perfect. And then you're saying for Facebook subtitles are like huge?

Adam: Same thing for Instagram. Just all of the default, if you're scrolling by video on Facebook and it starts to play, it's the default is that it's muted. So if you want to be able to catch anybody with any that you're saying, you have to have it as text on screen. [0:19:00.6]

Kevin: Okay. Is there any recommendations for text on screen for Facebook, like as far as any type of services apps, anything like that?

Adam: I use Premier, but that's probably overkill. I would just Google it. I'm sure there are some free apps out there, free pieces of software if you want something that's just really easy and that's all it does. I'm sure there's free stuff out there.

Kevin: Alright, perfect. Let's just go to Facebook for right now. What are some tips, the mistakes you're seeing that chiropractors are doing or not doing?

Adam: Honestly, they're talking too much about what they can do and the technology that they have, rather than how they can help somebody fix their problem. They talk about themselves too much.

Kevin: That's a big one, and that's kind of, we talk a lot about the storybrand stuff and making it about the patients and not about, especially doctors and chiropractors for sure, I know our profession more than other doctors, but we tend to talk about how great we are and how great our techniques and technology are, and really people don't care about that usually. [0:20:08.9]

Adam: Well yeah, that's the whole strong point of not being a traditional Western medicine doctor, is that they just give you a drug and you're okay, and they don't really ask you how you're doing, but being a chiropractor it's all, it's considered alternative medicine by a lot of people. So that's your opportunity to go in and be more patient focused. Because I think a lot of people are feeling that that's a void that chiropractors, massage therapists that whole industry can fix and focus on that medical doctors can't, or just aren't doing.

Kevin: I agree. Okay, cool. Let's roll through a couple more questions that I know I jotted down, and it just seems like I get these questions all the time, and YouTube's obviously a big top pick. What's different about YouTube than what we've talked about with Facebook and Instagram, other than a lot of the obvious, but some of the big hitters for that. [0:21:08.6]

Adam: You can't search for videos on Facebook like you can on YouTube.

Kevin: Correct me if I'm wrong, but YouTube is the second largest search engine there is, right?

Adam: Correct, it's Google and YouTube is number two.

Kevin: And luckily Google owns YouTube. Right?

Adam: Right, but it's its own separate thing at this point.

Kevin: Yeah, no, definitely. But with that said, if you're doing well on YouTube or if you're putting content on YouTube, Google is going to recognize that with some of its SEO on Google. Right?

Adam: Yes, absolutely. And that goes towards like why create video. As a chiropractor you're not trying to compete against the world or the country, you're trying to really compete in your community, and so if people are searching things in your community and you're putting out a lot of good content on YouTube, the higher chance they are going to find you. You're either on YouTube's platform, or on Google. [0:22:02.8]

Adam: Yeah. Well YouTube, it's really all about titling and distribution, because now it is a global platform, unless you're just using YouTube to host your videos and then you are embed it on a website or someplace else, you know, Facebook. 

Kevin: Alright so yeah, with YouTube, what do you recommend other than obviously what you've mentioned already?

Adam: If your goal is to help people and get in front of them, then you can, I mean YouTube, there's all kinds of resources to figure out what people are searching right now, and there's a service called Vid IQ and you can type in a search term and it will give you a ranking based on how many people are searching it and how much content there is available for what people are searching. 

Kevin: So Google Trends, you're saying...

Adam: Google Trends is another one, Vid IQ is one specifically for YouTube.

Kevin: That's going to be for YouTube, and Google Trends is going to be for Google. So two separate things for different platforms. [0:23:02.4]

Adam: There's several other ones, those aren't the only two.

Kevin: Okay, but the Vid IQ is kind of like Google Trends but for YouTube.

Adam: Specifically for YouTube, yeah. And it will give you rankings and suggestions for how to title your videos. If you put something in, YouTube will say, "Hey, there's a ton of people searching for that, but there's actually a whole ton of content. It's not very likely that your video is going to show up very high."

Kevin: Could you give me an example. If you're a chiropractor, you put a video on YouTube, what would you type into to Vid IQ to figure that out? What would be an example?

Adam: Get inside the head of your patients, so if somebody says, if somebody wants to google "proper sitting posture" because somebody, the reason that they're searching that is because they've got back pain, they might have a desk job or something like that. YouTube is going to pop up probably some videos that will be like Five Tips For How to Avoid Back Pain at Work. So those are the types of things that get a lot of views, it's the five tips videos, it's ten things you didn't know about proper running technique. You can do a lot of different specific things, and the thing with YouTube, it's sort of like, it's getting views is a form of marketing, you just start putting stuff out there, you see what gets views, see what people find and then do more of that. [0:24:24.3]

Kevin: Okay, so you type that in, you got that. What would you then do with the results that popped up? How is that going to guide you with what you're going to do?

Adam: Thumbnails are probably one of the quickest things that people will click on, if it's got a good interesting thumbnail, preferably with somebody's face on it. Those are the things that people tend to gravitate towards. But again, this is all trial and error, that's a trend right now and that may change as time goes on.

Kevin: Is that going to dictate what you're going to title the video and put in the description or anything like that?

Adam: The description is kind of important, but not as important as the title of the video. The title of the video is 80% of what it takes to get somebody to click on it. [0:25:03.8]

Kevin: Okay, so how do I use, I'm trying to connect the dots here. I typed what you mention in Vid IQ, these things show up saying that. How's that going to then help guide me into a good title of the video?

Adam: Let me pull up Vid IQ and give you a real world example here. Okay,  so I'm going to type in a keyword, I'm going to type in "proper sitting posture". Okay, and it gives me an overall score and a search volume, and then it also gives me volumes for each of those individual words. So and it's got other suggestions, so it says neck pain and back pain are things that are highly relevant to that or are related to it, so I might consider searching those. The overall score, it says it's a measure of how attractive that is. To me as a creator a higher number is better. Also a competition score, so a competition score of 100 means there is a whole ton of content that's out there, and so maybe I should try focusing on something that's not as many videos are out there about that topic. [0:26:07.9]

Kevin: Got you. So it can help guide your topics even?

Adam: Yeah. The best scenario would be something that people are searching a lot that nobody has videos for. So you can even relate it to something in the news that happened, sports player that broke their back and people are wondering how can I avoid having that same thing happen to me because I play baseball too, something like that. 

Kevin: Okay, and I'm assuming that's like the content that they're going to find is on the platform worldwide, not just in your community and they're not going to say like, "You're in Omaha, Nebraska and there's only a little bit of this topic here." It's going to probably going to aggregate all of the content related to back pain and sitting. Right?

Adam: Right. If you want to do things that are more local to you, then probably paid advertising. Because YouTube is going to deliver it to pretty much everybody. [0:27:00.5]

Kevin: Okay, so a little bit of paid advertising on YouTube.

Adam: Possibly. Well wherever you want to advertise to find people that are local to you.

Kevin: That's a different show episode.

Adam: Yes.

Kevin: Alright, cool. That's a great tip for YouTube, I appreciate that. Distribution is obviously huge, obviously you're shooting a video and all that side of things is great, but distribution is gigantic. Before we move on from that, is there anything else you want to say about distribution of video?

Adam: The number one thing is just go in and start making mistakes, because you learn from those and there is no correct answer because the correct answer is a moving target. So start messing up and you'll figure out what doesn't work. Doing the wrong thing is better than doing nothing.

Kevin: That's a thing I think a lot of times people in general, but chiropractors are paralyzed by not... They think they're going to have to do this 100%, it's got to be a homerun every time and they end up not taking action, they procrastinate because they're just paralyzed by wanting to be perfect. [0:28:04.4]

Adam: I read somebody said the other day that marketing is 80% trial and error and 20% of sticking with your errors that happened to work.

Kevin: That's a good one, I like that. We'll make that a power quote for this episode, that's good. Perfect. Alright, so let's just dive into one more topic of video and that is editing. What are some of the things that you recommend for editing, if the chiropractor is going to do it themselves?

Adam: Try to keep things as short as possible, but that's something that even comes with speaking more often. You tend to be able to edit yourself better, and so the editing will be less necessary. Gosh, that's such a broad question.

Kevin: Is there any particular software that you would recommend they use?

Adam: There's one, probably the simplest one to get into is one called Adobe Premiere Elements, and it's pretty powerful, it has a lot of stuff that you can do with it, but it's not like the full version of Adobe Premiere that's going to overwhelm you with buttons and settings. [0:29:09.8]

Kevin: Good. For me, the big thing too is that I don't want chiropractors to feel overwhelmed and think about the editing process, that's something that definitely could be outsourced, delegated out for sure. But just wanted to have it on there, there are some do it yourself ones for sure, and it's good to have that information on there.

Adam: To at least figure out how much time that you're going to be saving by outsourcing it.  

Kevin: That's a good idea. That's definitely one of the things. Like when you start doing things yourself early on, you realize this is going to be the first thing I'm going to outsource when I can. This is probably a high on that outsourced list. But speaking of outsource, tell us exactly what are your services, what are you doing for chiropractors, as it pertains this? I know you're in the north Dallas area, correct?

Adam: Right, right. [0:29:59.6]

Kevin: How do you help chiropractors out throughout the country that are trying to get into video and making sure that this is being optimized? What do you do for them?

Adam: It's really a consultation first, because I just met with one really close to me recently in person, that was really nice to be able to meet, and they wanted me to come in and shoot a video for them and do all the editing, and I said, "Why?" and they couldn't really give me an answer. And so I'm like, "So you don't really need me?" and they're like, "No we do, we just want it to look nice." I said, "Well what is nice? Is it $1000 nice, is it a $10,000 nice, is it $200,000 nice?" and they didn't really have an answer. They hadn't done videos before, and I was worried that they actually might be trying to start with something that would be too expensive or too nice and wouldn't really matter to the customers.

Kevin: Makes sense. So you'll do some consultation. So like let's say this is a chiropractor that's long distance for you, what's the process that you help them out with? [0:31:05.2]

Adam: I figure out exactly what their goals are with editing, okay, why does need to be shorter or why does it need to be fancier. Needs to be shorter because people don't watch past the first 20 seconds on Facebook, so we need to figure out how to get all the info into the first 20 seconds, which may mean titles, having all the information on the screen very quickly and easily and efficiently, but also that doesn't overwhelm people. That can be a hard balance to strike.

Kevin: Perfect. So you essentially help with their marketing strategy and start picking out the different distribution channels, making sure they're optimizing them, making sure that they've got the right equipment, editing's looking good, length, things of that nature?

Adam: Yeah, or maybe even audio clean up. If the audio is too hissy I'll go in and I'll fix that, or I'll maybe have to ask them to re-record something and I can give them tips in terms of how to get things to me the best way so that I can edit them and make them look basically just not be distracting to people. [0:32:03.1]

Kevin: Okay, perfect, so they'll do a lot of the editing, or you'll do a lot of editing for them and they'll shoot over to you and turn it into a nice polished piece of video that can be put on the different platforms.

Adam: Right, right. And length is probably the number one thing, just because we're dealing with the internet.

Kevin: Absolutely. Cool. So how would someone reach out to you if they are interested in having someone really help with their marketing strategy, editing, platform, distribution things of that nature?

Adam: You can text me or call me or email me.

Kevin: Okay, what do you got?

Adam: And my phone number is 940-367-4447 and I respond to texts on there all the time, that's my personal number. And then email if you want to send me maybe some example videos or have a lot of information in there, it's aterri.atm@gmail.com 

Kevin: Perfect, and we'll put those in the show notes.

Adam: Sweet.

Kevin: Alright, thank you for your time, that was helpful. A lot of people get very bogged down with video and you helped clear a lot of the information out and gave us some really helpful tips, so I truly appreciate that, and I'm sure you'll be getting some contacts from some chiropractors here.  [0:33:14.1]

Adam: Thanks, Kevin. Yeah, it's just start doing it, just start going out there and making mistakes and you'll figure out what you need.

Kevin: I had someone recently ask me where they should start in their marketing, and they gave me like a few examples or ideas and one was video, I was like, "Do video, just do it." Take action.

Adam: Sweet. Yeah, that's what I always say.

Kevin: Alright, thank you.

Adam: Alright, thanks, Kevin, appreciate it.

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