EPISODE 451: Chiropractic Progress over Last 25 years with Mark Sanna DC

Hey, chiropractors. We're ready for another Modern Chiropractic Marketing Show with Dr. Kevin Christie, where we discuss the latest in marketing strategies, contact marketing, direct response marketing, and business development with some of the leading experts in the industry. 

Dr. Kevin Christie: [00:00:00] Alright. Excited to have Mark Sanna on the podcast today. It's, uh, a long time coming. Should have had him on a lot sooner . Uh, I've been seeing a lot of the work you've done over the years. I've, I've graduated 20 years ago and, uh, I'd love to hear a little bit about yourself personally and professionally.

Mark Sanna, DC: Well, hey, first of all, thank you so much, Kevin for having me on the podcast. Um. Eight years and running. This is amazing. And, uh, it's, uh, quite a testament, uh, for what you've done. Back when you started, podcasts weren't even a thing I know, because no one was listening at first. It's just amazing. So kudos for that.

Little bit of my background is I'm a chiropractic kid. My dad's a chiropractor. Grew up in uh, a chiropractic family, so didn't have to discover chiropractic. It was always there for us. And, um, I like to say that that could be a good thing and not [00:01:00] such a good thing. I can remember, uh, having mumps as a child and my dad would get up every hour on the hour and adjust me.

Through the night and the mumps were gone in the morning, so I had to go to school, so I wasn't so thrilled about that. And, um. You know, we ate so healthy and so clean that, uh, no one would, uh, trade lunches with us. You know how you'd go in and the kids would have ding-dongs and mm-hmm. Hoos and all those kind of stuff that you wanted so badly and we'd have like this fresh, homemade bread and beautiful.

. We grew up in a, in a great household. I literally grew up adjusting my dad and, and mom and the dogs and the cats. And, uh, dogs as you know, are pretty easy Cats, not so much dog.

Dog will lay there and do the cat. Maybe you can adjust once and then, then they get smart. So. So I began my practice up [00:02:00] in, uh, the state of Connecticut. Oh, nice. It's a really interesting, uh, time of, of coming in to the profession. Certainly there were some great changes back then. We're gonna talk a little bit about multidisciplinary practice and how that's kind of like a.

Regular thing. Now, back then was not such an, uh, uh, an easy thing as chiropractors and medical doctors really didn't play very well together. Talk about cats and dogs. Yeah.

Dr. Kevin Christie: And

Mark Sanna, DC: um, so we hired this company called Breakthrough Coaching to manage our practice. What year was that about? My goodness. This was in the, probably the mid nineties.

Nice. And, um, it was an interesting approach. Uh, the guy who owned the company was not a chiropractor. His wife was, he came from the publishing world, Columbia House Publishing. And he taught us [00:03:00] about what's a profit and loss statement and mm-hmm. How to run a profitable business and, and back then a lot of the coaching that was taking place was very mindset oriented, which is super important.

You have to have the right mindset, but you also have to have the skills to run a business. Right. So yeah, but my dad used to say, mark, you're in the business of healing and without the business, you don't get the chance to do any healing. So I really was interested in that. Kind of took to it very much.

Few, few years after them coaching us. The guy who owned the company said, Hey, would you like to be a coach? And I'm like, but that's what I wanted to do my whole life, right? Mm-hmm. I, mm-hmm. I'm one of the few people who you'll meet in life. Who knew from age five? What I was gonna do for the rest of my life, and that is to be a chiropractor.

So I have always had that, uh, career path, um, going, going through all the [00:04:00] way. And so we had always great. Um, I'm Italian, so when you have very close family friends, uh, you call them auntie and uncle, right? Yeah. So all my aunties and uncles were the great chiropractors of all time, Gonstead. All these folks who people kind of know their names, um, now Thompson and, and those are folks I got to meet and know, and it was just kind of amazing, um, background.

So here I am. Coaching 75 practices, Kevin, in practicing full-time. So I would coach literally, uh, and this was before we had broadband, right? So you're talking about a OL, you know, you have mail. Kind of a thing. And, uh, curly paper fax, many of your listeners will have no idea what a fax machine is, forget about it.

One that had curly paper, uh, fax and come in and there'd be curled [00:05:00] faxes all over the floor. And, um, so I was really, um. Really working hard. Really working hard, and he was making all the money. Mm-hmm. So I invited him out to lunch. Uh, his name was Brian. I said, Brian, I, you know, we need to talk. Um, he said, sure.

What would you like to know? He, I said, I'd, I'd really like to have your job. I'd like to buy the company. He said, fantastic. I would love you to buy the company. Yeah. So, Kevin, back then, this is 1998. Uh, I went and, and borrowed a million dollars. Now, back then, that was a chunk of change. Yeah. And the lawyers are saying, what are you buying?

There's no assets. There's no capital equipment. You're just buying intellectual property. And I remember telling the lawyer, I said, I'm buying my way out of Danbury, [00:06:00] Connecticut, which God bless, Danbury, Connecticut, small town that I grew up in. Um, I like living in Miami where I am right now. A little bit.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. Funny, funny story is, uh, my, my mom's side of the family is from Danbury, Connecticut from like the 17 hundreds until the early 19 hundreds. Yeah, there

Mark Sanna, DC: you go. Same deal. Same deal. That's really amazing. So we may have some relatives together. Yeah. Abs that's cool. Um, very, very fun. And so, um, I did buy.

The company. I remember I left the bank, Kevin, I walked across the street. There was a uh, church. The front doors were open. I walked in totally empty, sat down in the front pew and kneeled down, and I said, alright, Lord. You got me this far. Let's go all the way. Yeah. And, uh, and thank God now it's almost 30 years later, right?

28 years [00:07:00] later. And, um, we're, we're going strong and growing and a beautiful team of coaches, uh, that support our clients across the country. We have like two dozen clients in, uh, Seoul, Korea. Wow. So, oh, wow. Think about how the, you know, amazing, right? How, uh, things can grow and, uh, develop over years and over time.

Yeah. Um, but it's been a wonderful journey. Uh, I've loved every bit of it. And, um, it's, it's, you know, you probably always hear this, p people say, there's never been a better time to be a chiropractor. Mm-hmm. Well, there's never been a better time to be a chiropractor than right now.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. You know, and I, that kind of leads us to a segue and thanks for, for giving us the context.

I, I love hearing the origin stories of, of, of entrepreneurs and, and that risk, right? I think so many people are inherently risk adverse and, and I get that. But, uh, I love hearing the, the big risks, you know, and a million dollars in 1998. [00:08:00] Is a million dollars now is still a lot, but a million dollars then is, is a different animal.

Uh, I don't know, maybe that's like $5 million now. But, um, that, that was a awesome risk that you took and it's obviously paid off. And so over the 25 plus years of, of working with, uh, chiropractors, uh, what are some of the, you know, what's the evolution you've seen within chiropractic that makes you say, yeah, like it's never been better to be a chiropractor, but I would love to hear some of the.

The really positives from there. Maybe some of the, the struggles from back then and then how that's progressed. I know maybe insurance is worse now than it was then, but there's better things now versus that. I just like get a little broad dialogue around this last 25 plus years.

Mark Sanna, DC: Sure, for sure. So, um, I've been really fortunate to serve, uh, on some great boards in chiropractic, some great organizations, uh, one being the Foundation for Chiropractic Progress gives me a really cool insight into what's [00:09:00] happening, and I'm gonna share that.

We've just published a great new book called Adjusted Reality. If you don't know about that one, you want to check it out on Amazon. It's super, super cool. And the other is called the Chiropractic Future. And the Chiropractic Future is an organization, uh, that was developed because we realized as a profession we didn't have a five year strategic plan.

So what, you know, company doesn't have a five year strategic plan. Certainly physical therapists have the a MA has amazing, maybe more than five year plans. And so we got together, we literally pulled thousands of chiropractors to see what the top issues were, top uh, uh, areas of interest worth that they felt that we should be directing ourselves.

As a, uh, profession. And of course, um, research is at the core of everything and I don't, I think a lot [00:10:00] of chiropractors don't. Realize or think about the importance of chiropractic research. Research drives everything when you have the objective empirical data. You know, we have great clinical based data.

Uh, you and I both know that there are people who get, uh, chiropractic adjustments. I mentioned, uh. The moms, right? There's no studies on moms going away. Uh, I remember during the pandemic, I was like so excited because I knew in my heart and soul that a chiropractic boosts the immune system, right? And I was like, gosh, we gotta just shout this out across the world.

And yet there was no, uh, blind, double blind study research published research. On chiropractic's effect on the immune system. And so there have been tremendous leaps and bounds in chiropractic research. And I, I [00:11:00] give a shout out to my good friend, uh, Heidi Havoc. And if you don't know Heidi's. Uh, uh, website or her information or haven't had the chance to see her, uh, speak.

She's a dynamic speaker. She spells her name H-A-A-V-I-K, Heidi Havok, and she is the premier researcher in the chiropractic profession and has done a tremendous amount of research on the impact of chiropractic on the brain. She does PET scans, she's out of New Zealand. She does PET scans. And if you know what a PET scan is, think of like a, a brightly colored MRI where the whole brain lights up and you get to see the activity of the brain and they scan these people before their adjustment and after their adjustment.

And what they find is, is that your prefrontal cortex. Really important area. 'cause that's an area that houses your executive [00:12:00] function. How you are autonomous in the world, how you interrelate with other people. In particular, forward head posture, forward flexion of the head, looking at your tech, which we are all doing too much now, uh, actually turns that dampens the signal from your, uh, frontal cortex.

That's a big problem, a big issue, but a chiropractic adjustment, boom, lights that up and turns it on. You see the, it's almost like a fireworks display, uh, going off. And so she's doing tremendous research on quality of life parameters. Mm-hmm. We have tons of research, as you know, Kevin, back pain, neck pain, and headaches.

Yeah. We got it, right? Mm-hmm. Chiropractic, we got it. What we don't have, but where the research is now are quality of life parameters, how it impacts quality of life, longevity. Mobility, autonomy, right? All of the [00:13:00] things that are very, very important. You know, they say movement is life, right? Yeah. So the less, the more restricted you are.

As you get older, your world gets smaller and smaller and smaller until in fact you are no longer able to be autonomous. And we don't want that. That's not how you want to live a life. You wanna live vibrantly. Especially in the older years, right. Getting out and doing your shopping and being with your friends and doing the things that you deserve to do.

Right. So great research drives legislation. Yeah. That's your scope. And over the years, uh, I've gotten to see chiropractic scope grow. Through different states. You know, there were some states, New Jersey, you couldn't even say drink eight, uh, ounces of water a day. It was illegal for you to say that many states it was illegal to adjust extremities.

You couldn't adjust a wrist or an armor. Uh, [00:14:00] so crazy. And there's still some kooky stuff like that out there that I hear and it just amazes me, Washington say, you can't do shockwave. I'm like, what the hell can't do shockwave. What? How just. When did anyone even hurt anybody? That's

Dr. Kevin Christie: a sensitive subject for a, a couple in our mastermind group.

'cause a lot of us have shockwave and, and they're in Washington state and they, they actually are on the border of Oregon, so we're like, just open up a, a shockwave clinic right in Oregon, only shockwave.

Mark Sanna, DC: What the heck, right? So there's all that kind of kooky stuff, but we've all listen, no one ever gave anything to us as a profession.

We've had a claw for it, fight for it every single bit. They keep trying to get it, taken it back. Um, some of your listeners may be aware of the Wilkes trial, and that was where the A MA got caught. Trying to eliminate us as a profession. They had the Council on Quackery, right? Yeah. And um, they really did try to, to, uh, wipe us [00:15:00] out.

And we won. We won it. We actually won that. A lot of people don't know won that on appeal. We lost it and we had to go back and appeal it and we won that so that, uh, they cannot collude against us, although. We, you know, listen, a MA has the copyright to the CPT and ICD codes. It's like copywriting the alphabet for god's sakes.

Right? And we're writers and the freaking alphabet is, is copywritten. And so there's, there's still ways that that stuff goes on the legislator is not going to be able to pass. Legislation that impacts scope. Unless you have the research, that's what they're gonna say. You're nice people, but show me the data.

And now we can more and more and more. Great legislation, great relationships with the, uh, Capitol Hill locally or, uh, federally impacts, uh, reimbursement. Yeah. Bottom [00:16:00] line, uh, how you get paid. So it starts research and then it moves to legislation scope, and then it moves to reimbursement. And so you can't miss.

One of those steps along the way. Mm-hmm. Uh, in order to expect to have a strong and robust, um, profession. And so that's what the chiropractic future strategic plan, uh, has been doing for the last, it's coming up on five years. Uh, we're in the fourth year of the, uh, plan. We're about to meet up in Boston next week.

At the, uh, chiropractic Congress where we'll all get together and, and, uh, be able to strategize on the next mm-hmm. Uh, five years coming up. So those are exciting times. Um, for, I'll give you an example. I hear a lot about, uh, Medicare with chiropractors and Yeah. You know what that was like back in 76, 19 76 for you and I were, you know, in, in the, [00:17:00] in the game.

Uh, we got accepted in federal. Uh, benefits package of Medicare, excuse me, the only profession defined by the. What it is that we treat the subluxation? Yeah. So there's, you know, oncologist isn't by liver cancer or breast cancer or ovarian cancers, but it's the lesion that we treat, quote unquote lesion.

Subluxation limits our scope. Uh, under chiropractic, I happen to leave. These are important things like the word subluxation, like the word adjustment. It's important for us to own it and use it. Um, nobody else owns adjustment, right? That's ours. You're not gonna see massage therapists, physical therapists, anybody else touch an adjustment?

Spinal manipulation, joint mobilization, fine adjustment is ours. So don't be [00:18:00] afraid of your vocabulary, right? Yet. Here we are pigeonholed as kind of physician, but not physician. We, we, we, uh, got into the system, but we can't get out, right? Mm-hmm. It's like the roach motel, you know, in, but they can't get out, right?

Mm-hmm. And, um, so here we are stuck in this catch 22, that we can't adjust extremities. We can't get paid for our examinations, but we have to do one. Yeah. Uh, we can't get paid for our therapies or exercise stretches that our patients need and deserve. And so there is a Medicare Modernization Act climbing Capitol Hill has more sponsors than ever before.

Mm-hmm. Continues to gain literally hundreds of sponsors. Um, and, um. Listen, like Medicare or not. I know many chiropractors, Medicare is a, a button. It would provide cultural authority. And that cultural authority is something that we [00:19:00] are constantly fighting for. Um, we've constantly had to fight that battle.

You know, many, many, many healthcare providers, many medical physicians have no idea your educational background. You're actually a doctor. Uh, and they think maybe it's something sort of a, you know, you could take some coursework and whatnot. Yeah. And you can be a, a chiropractor. So cultural authority is important.

Patients deserve that. It's still the largest demographic. The boomers coming through. They paid all their careers for their Medicare and, you know, they should be able to use it for chiropractic care. Mm-hmm. Um, and so interesting times. Yeah. To see that happening and changing, uh, up on Capitol Hill.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah, I was kind of flowcharting as you were talking here, and it's been pretty cool.

And, and I just to summarize, obviously with the Chi Chiropractic future and the five-year plan, the, the, the goal with this [00:20:00] research driven. Uh, plan that that's being developed and obviously we're getting the research behind us. It, it's going to increase the legislation and that's gonna help us all the way to the Medicare.

It's also gonna help with probably, like you mentioned, cultural authority, which is gonna increase utilization of what we're doing. Yes. And then what you mentioned, which I almost, I, I kind of. Took another step to it. If you have really strong cultural authority, then your perceived value goes up in the eyes of the beholder.

And you know, obviously, you know, if we were rewinding and it was 1998, insurance reimbursed a lot better. But it. Uh, we didn't really have a lot of cultural authority back then, and if reimbursement of insurance didn't happen, a lot of chiropractors would've a hard time. Uh, hopefully as we increase our cultural authority, it offsets a little bit of the current insurance reimbursement situations where we can, with that cultural authority, [00:21:00] be able to charge more for our cash services or have cash paying patients willing to pay us.

Appropriately. Maybe the insurances aren't, but the the people are. Um, and then, you know, you have like some, I'd like to get your opinion on this. Um. And, and I do want to go back to the Medicare thing, but I want to stay on track here for myself and get your thoughts on it. Is that, you know, obviously, um, a lot of chiropractors, um, are considering add-on services.

It's something you're seeing right now in the profession really that isn't a good place, is that whether the practice is in network with insurances. Or they're not, but let's just take the insurance based practice. Mm-hmm. Because they, you can ex, they can extrapolate out. But if you, insurance based practice, are you seeing a lot of the best practices, um, having add-on services?

You mentioned shockwave or it's decompression or it's other types of therapies and they're able to offset that insurance reimbursement problem?

Mark Sanna, DC: [00:22:00] Yeah, I, I think here's the thing. It's really important is that technology is. Absolutely, uh, an important, uh, component of practice. Mm-hmm. Um. It, the shiniest objects, the, the, the, the coolest toys, uh, will not replace the importance of the chiropractic adjustment.

Yes. And I want people to understand that that's your uniqueness. Yeah. Right. You're you. What makes you unique as a profession is that nobody else does that. And if you focus on the other things which are ancillary to that, which are supportive of that, at the risk of not really mastering your craft, and there's a generation of chiropractors, uh, that are struggling with.[00:23:00]

Learning how to give a great chiropractic adjustment. And, uh, I think that that's super important. You should constantly be polishing those skills, constantly work on those skills so that you can find, locate a subluxation and correct a subluxation. That's number one that's gonna produce the outcomes.

Expanding beyond that. There are tremendous tools. We're seeing things now in remote therapy monitoring, uh, where we're able to increase, uh, patient compliance by. Touching bases with them on an app and seeing that they're actually doing the home care and eating right and doing the things that we want them to do and be reimbursed, uh, by insurance for that.

Uh, there are some great technologies we mentioned, um, shockwave, right? And essentially that's stimulating the healing process. It goes in, [00:24:00] dissipates the, the tissue. You release growth factors, you stimulate stem cell. Turnover and healing. And so these are chronic conditions that we didn't have the technology years ago.

Or if we did, they were typically manual technologies like Graston and a RT that really beat up, they're great, uh, tools, but they beat up the chiropractor and so. Um, if you've seen chiropractors with shot Yeah. Saddle joints in their thumbs. Right. That's, I'm a

Dr. Kevin Christie: 20, I'm a, I'm a 20 year a RT certified doc, so you, you, I know what you talking, you know, you know,

Mark Sanna, DC: and, uh, so how cool to be able to do a, a shock wave laser.

You know, listen so much research and mitochondria and photo bio moul is essentially turning on the mitochondria. It's producing energy that's required for healing and the amazing things that we can do. Even combo there. Yeah, spinal decompression. [00:25:00] Fantastic. There are things we can do with neuropathy patients, many, many things that we can do that our cash pay support the the patients.

I am huge, Kevin, into peptide therapies.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm.

Mark Sanna, DC: And many chiropractors don't know that peptides some of the most popular peptides. Are actually available in iontophoresis patches, so they don't require injection, which we can't do in most states as chiropractors, but they're a patch that goes on the forearm, has a tiny little micro battery inside there that drives the peptides across the skin.

And things like NAD plus that you hear so much about dri again, driving, uh, energy in the mitochondria. It moves the Krebs cycle, right? A DP to a TP requires NAD plus as a coenzyme, um, BPC 1 57. The Wolverine, uh, peptide that helps healing after Hugh Jackman in the movies gets [00:26:00] all shot up and, and cut and give bounces right back.

So there are lots of cool areas in science that are really moving ahead, uh, in chiropractic that allow us to be, um. Really, truly looking at whole being health. Um, and that's one of the things as chiropractors, we've always been whole being. We don't look at somebody coming in, they're a back or they're a neck or they're a headache, but they're a whole being.

And that's a really important, um, concept. Um, and again, Dr. Sherry McAllister kind of captured that term, whole being care in her book adjusted reality. That's out now is, um. A really amazing thing that, again, is differentiating factor for us. Um, but we'll get into, talk about multidisciplinary practice in a bit and yeah, how we're now collaborating more, uh, than ever before, um, with some of the new regenerative, [00:27:00] uh, anti-aging types of therapies that are out there.

It's a great, again, a great time to be in chiropractic.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. And it kind of blends we talked about before research, whether it's research in the adjustment or if it's research in some of these other technologies and, and, and, and therapies. And treatments that are proving it's worth and our expanded scope that we've developed, that you mentioned earlier, which you're excited about.

And within that expanded scope, we're able to do a lot of these things now. There's always gonna be a barrier to our, our scope, and that's fine. Right. And, and then so within that barrier of scope, you can collaborate, which you just mentioned, and, and have a multidisciplinary, uh, what are some, what are some of the things you're seeing there where chiropractors are able to obviously stay within their scope mm-hmm.

And then do certain things that might be without the scope by bringing in, uh, different collaborators and partnerships within that. Are you seeing a lot of that now?

Mark Sanna, DC: Yeah, I'm all for staying within our scope again. Yeah. But our scope is, is. What, what we do best. And [00:28:00] that's, you know, connect the brain and the body remove interference, and, uh, that's an awesome thing, uh, to be able to do.

So I'm really cool with that. Um, I really like expanding who we can serve by collaborating with others. So I, I personally don't have a, uh, a desire to inject, uh, joints and, and, uh. Uh, do any of that. I prefer to, to, um, stick within my scope, but adding to a, uh, chiropractic practice that at its heart and soul has that health from within whole being team approach to care is amazing.

So you can bring on your team, uh, a nurse practitioner or a physician assistant. And have them, you know, do some of these regenerative procedures like platelet rich plasma therapy, PRP. You draw the patient's blood, spin down the platelets and [00:29:00] inject those into a joint or a torn ligament area of low blood supply, and, uh, actually have the body regenerate.

Um, great, uh, amazing procedures that can be done where we can not only stop, but reverse osteoarthritis. And that, you know, years back, you know, it was, you'd show patients there are x-rays, you'd phase place 'em on the x-ray, say, listen, you're in stage three. Once you get to stage four, there's not much that I can do, right?

Mm-hmm. And now we're actually able to stop and reverse using some of these great, um, technologies that are out there. So I love peptides. I love PRPA two M. A lot of people don't know about alpha two macroglobulin and that's used for chronic osteoarthritis. Um, the way the body repairs and cleans up inflammation and areas of damage is through [00:30:00] proteolytic enzymes.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Mm-hmm.

Mark Sanna, DC: And, uh, unfortunately what happens is over time in a chronically arthritic joint. Those proteolytic enzymes get trapped in there. Yeah. And they got nothing else to eat except for your nice cartilage that's left and they chow down on that until it's worn out. And H two M, just like platelets circulate in your blood, we draw the blood, filter that out, inject that into the joint, and it binds with the proteolytic enzymes and stops the chemical reaction inside of the joint.

That's a big deal. Then you can do other therapies like a PRP or um, a Wharton's Jelly. Stem cell allograft, something like that. Um, that actually do regenerate the, the, um, uh, chondrocytes, the cartilage tissue, uh, inside the joints. Uh, ozone therapy. I'm huge on ozone. Uh, ozone is O three, right? You would never inject O2 into anybody.

It'd stroke 'em out. Um, but oh three. [00:31:00] Injected into joints, literally mimics new blood supply. And so we use ozone for everything from trigger point therapies, uh, to, uh, every joint injection. We do anything where you want more oxygen, um, to promote healing. Mm-hmm. So those are all really great cash pay services.

Right. These are not insurance reimbursed services, um, that are game changers because the end of that, uh, railway track. Is a knee replacement or joint replacement? Yeah. We know once they go in and replace the joint, it's never the same.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Right. Yeah. And, and I wanna touch on something there too. 'cause you mentioned like, you know, the cash pay services and I think mm-hmm.

The chiropractor needs to, uh, have some conviction around what services they really are, are seeing results and, and having, and, and then be okay with having, you know, someone in the business having a money discussion with, with the patient. Mm-hmm. I mean, it seems like every. And to every doctor now, you know, [00:32:00] whether it's the md, the dermatologist, all of them now are, are having to do add-on services and you want to make sure you're offering ethical add-on services, but it's just be, it's not just chiropractors now it's, it's like, oh yeah.

I mean, unless you're like a plastic surgeon or a brain surgeon, like every, everybody is struggling with reimbursement and a lot of the ones that are doing well are finding these types of. Ethical therapies and treatments that help their patients, and then getting over the fact that we now don't have a reimbursement model for that, but the patient is willing to pay for that.

Yeah. And, and that's how you're gonna get them better in supplements, like you said, to what you do as your core service as a chiropractor. And, and then you'll, you won't be, you know, dying on the vine. Well, you

Mark Sanna, DC: know, health insurance is there in place for when something breaks. Yeah. Uh, it, it is not there to keep you healthy.

So I like to say to people, you [00:33:00] know, you probably have insurance on your car if you wanna put new tires on the car. Insurance is not gonna pay for your new tires or a tank of gas. Crash up your car, it needs to get fixed. Insurance is going to be used. So it's kind of the same thing in health. It's there if something breaks, but in terms of keeping you healthy, preventing illness, it was never designed for that.

It, it simply, uh, is not just demographic wise, the people there, you know. Could not, it could not support the people that are there. And I'm not saying that there are not tremendous inefficiencies, inequalities, uh, in insurance reimbursement and that fair and equitable, uh, insurance reimbursement should be a goal of our profession always.

And, and access as [00:34:00] well. Mm-hmm. But getting patients to understand. That insurance has its place, but above and beyond that you are investing in your health, in your life. The most important thing you ask anyone, what's your most valuable thing? They're not gonna say their car, they're gonna say it's their health.

You don't have your health. Then nothing. Nothing else matters, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so people are willing if you have certainty, and that's kind of where you were going. That you're giving them the right thing at a fair price, uh, that is something that is going to support and help them. Something that you would recommend to your wife or your mom or your sister or your brother, right?

Because it's the right thing for them to do. And you've done the studies in training and know how to appropriately apply that. Absolutely. [00:35:00] Feel great about charging it. Mm-hmm. Um. I guarantee you go spend one day in the hospital and see what the bill is for that. Yeah. Right. The litmus test,

Dr. Kevin Christie: I, I always like, is that okay?

If you have a service? If I just named a service shockwave and, and your mom, sister, dad, brother had something. Would you want them to come into your practice? Use a shockwave for that. And a lot of times like, okay, yeah, for sure, right? You took, you took the mon, you took the money out of it, right? Mm-hmm. If you would've said yes to that, but then you struggle with recommending it to patients who need it.

It's literally because you just have put the money into it, into the buying decision for them, and you're doing them a disservice. And so that's the thing is like if you would want your significant other, whoever to utilize that, taking the money out of it, yes. Then you should feel great about offering it to your patients.

And there has to be a money component to it, and you just gotta get over that. [00:36:00]

Mark Sanna, DC: Yeah. And you know, I, I agree completely that uh, you know, being able to have those conversations for many folks is uncomfortable. Yeah. Right. You know how you get over it. Practice. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And really, you know, look at yourself in the mirror and say it and say it and video yourself until you get comfortable with, okay, I'm giving them the very best service at the very best price that is gonna really produce the outcome that I want for them.

Um, then I can feel really good. I did my job. Yeah. My job was to prepare. Diagnose, recommend. My job is not necessarily to be the, um, bank, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um,

Dr. Kevin Christie: I love it. And I wanted to kind of wrap up with one, one of the questions of, and you, you've kind of answered it, but the, the question is, uh, what are you excited about in the next five years?

It definitely [00:37:00] sounds like research definitely sounds like a lot of technologies. Are you seeing. And I kind of lead you on this question a little bit. Are, are you, are you excited about the, this whole, uh, field of longevity and health span that we're seeing and how maybe we as chiropractors can play a big role in that?

Mark Sanna, DC: Very much so. Uh, we are really, you know, I've always said we play a central and central in unique role in healthcare. Mm-hmm. And it's being recognized now. At many, many, many levels, uh, where you're being, uh, able to see that, um, not only individual patients, employers are having chiropractors come in and have wellness centers on site for their patients, um, you're, you're really seeing the rest of the healthcare environment understand.

You know, we're not an alternative. We are a, a super, super important [00:38:00] and unique component, and there are things that they do well and things that we really do well. And when we play together, the outcome is the best for patients, right? And so I see that trend. That trend of collaboration continuing, uh, the, the younger generation of, uh, of medical providers coming out of school.

They don't have all the baggage that the older guys had that, you know, they have this big chip on their shoulder, you know, that they're the big MDs. We took their opioids away and that. It was a big crutch for them. For just the stuff that, like I say, you know, is pretty much, uh, our, you know, a party trick, ba back pain, neck pain, headaches.

That's a party trick for chiropractic health and longevity. That's our real wheelhouse, right? That you're staying flexible and mobile and active. Um. They, they don't have stuff for that. Right? Yeah. And so referring to us [00:39:00] cross referring is tremendous. Really important.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Yeah. I love it. We've even put together, uh, you know, a, a big document with some other chiropractors on certain things.

Like we'd find research on, you know, obviously big toe strength in prevention of falls and how that can increase longevity. And what, what can you do to improve that foot dysfunction or, you know, rehab on that. Yes. Grip strength, obviously spinal health things and the spinal health is a huge. Marker of someone not living a good health span.

Mark Sanna, DC: Oh my gosh.

Dr. Kevin Christie: And then it just goes, it just goes from there, obviously, which, which is exciting. And something I'm, I'm trying to keep up with as much as I can too. Very cool. Well, mark, this has been great. I really appreciate your time. Um, how can chiropractors find out more about what you've got going on and what you're doing and how you're helping out?

The profession and chiropractors

Mark Sanna, DC: well. Great. So I'm gonna invite you, um, to visit me on my website called my breakthrough.com. [00:40:00] B-R-E-A-K-T-H-R-O-U-G-H my breakthrough.com. Lots of information that's there. Cool thing is having an unusual name, like my last name, S-A-N-N-A. Mm-hmm. There's not a lot of Mark Santas out there in the world, so you can always Google me and find me.

Um, I come up, uh, on the top, which is cool. I'm gonna ask you though, as well. Please take a look over at the Foundation for Chiropractic Progress website. Mm-hmm. F four cp.org. There's a great Find a doctor list there. Make sure you are on it. Literally thousands of patients every single month or hitting that and searching for.

Chiropractors where you are. Uh, check out the new book Adjusted reality on amazon.com. I recommend doing a reading club with your staff. Everybody read a chapter a week, um, and discuss it. That's a really great thing for you to do. Then check out the [00:41:00] chiropractic Future website as well, and you'll see the great opportunities for you to volunteer as well as chiropractors.

The only way we're gonna actually see these changes through that we've discussed is together. One of us alone, we can't do it. The hill of the mountain is too big. But when we come together in an organization like that, we can make a huge difference. And there's literally hundreds of volunteers, researchers, government relations, technology, uh, that's going on is really amazing.

So if you have an interest and you wanna give back, um, just put in chiropractic future strategic plan. And check out what's available, volunteer, come sit on a committee. We'd love to have you.

Dr. Kevin Christie: Perfect. Well, I'll put all that in the show notes and I really appreciate what you're doing to move the profession forward and what you've done over the years as well.

Thank you Kevin, so much. I [00:42:00] appreciate you very much.